40-303 versus 357-303 wildcat for hunting?

[303Guy]

Thanks for that, sthwestvictoria. Very interesting indeed. If there's more from the book then I would really appreciate it. I'm sure others would be interested also so perhaps posting them here would be good.

JDJ is saying the 375 is the best performer of his 444 based cartridges in a handgun but he speaks of jacketed's. Still, velocities for the 375 are higher than for the 357 which is what one would expect in a short barrel. But he is the shoulder for head-spacing while if I went 375 I'd be using the rim. I'd expect the 375-303 to at least equal the 375 JDJ because the barrel would be longer.

JDJ speaks of using the 444 for his 375 which in a way would be easier should one want a shoulder while the 303 is easy enough to neck up. However, the shoulder area needs to be ironed to the same thickness as the neck. This is done using a special die which I'm confident I can make.

[sthwestvictoria]

[sthwestvictoria]

From Dean Grennells ABC's of Reloading 3rd Ed; 1985

[Afro408]

So, 303Guy, have you decided on the cal yet??
If I hadn't had a .358" barrel, I probably would have gone for a 375 something or other. I had thought about something on those lines and was planning on building a Martini in 375-2 1/2" Flanged, but I had the 35 barrel and so that is what I ended up with. I don't have any regrets, as it is a superb little rifle and suites my needs.
All the bullets, I've tried in it, have been accurate and I'm going to have a lot of fun shooting it.
Mate and I are going on a 10 day pig hunt in September. Can't wait,

[303Guy]

I'm kinda leaning toward 40 cal. There's a 416 Strauss out there with phenomenal performance from a P-14. Think 350gr bullet doing 2300 fps! Way more than I want launching of my shoulder, even with a suppressor and anyway, a Lee Enfield can't handle it. I like the idea of a 40 although the 358 does seem more practical. Work has dried up at the moment so I'm reluctant to spend right now but it is what I want. Trouble is, the barrel in question has a 1-in-40 twist. Seems way too slow but I don't know for sure so I'm just marking time.

[Stephen Cohen]

I too thought the 1 in 40 was slow, one cant rush these things or you get something that don't fill your wish list, two days ago I was with my gunsmith discussing a 40 cal and perhaps a 450 Marlin after he finishes my 357 max.

[MBTcustom]

Often, I talk to people for at least 9 months before they pull the trigger on a custom build. That will probably change someday, but a custom rifle is nothing to be entered into lightly.
Unfortunately, there's no way to really know if you'll like it till it's built.

[sthwestvictoria]

Just resurrecting this old thread to leave this link about creating a .444 enfield:
http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazin...127partial.pdf
which sets out a way to help enfields feed from the magazine with straight wall cartridges by putting what is almost an enbloc clip inside the magazine (like the Steyr m95?). Hope it is useful to someone.

[nekshot]

Just resurrecting this old thread to leave this link about creating a .444 enfield:
http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazin...127partial.pdf
which sets out a way to help enfields feed from the magazine with straight wall cartridges by putting what is almost an enbloc clip inside the magazine (like the Steyr m95?). Hope it is useful to someone.

Many thanks for sharing this info!!! I want to do this in the future and the clip always bothered me even though it almost works in the clips I have on hand. Finding a proper twist barrel with out breaking the savings account is proving to be a chore.

[longbow]

Indeed! Thanks for posting. I have been thinking of doing this for many years. I may never get to it but I saved the article just in case.

Back in the 1970's I had a Siamese Mauser converted to .45-70 and really liked it. It was an unfortunate victim of my need for money to go to college though and I never replaced it. Now that I have a growing collection of Lee Enfields I have thought .444 would be a nice conversion to make.

I have also seen Lee Enfields converted to .45-70 but I think it is a bit more involved than the .444 conversion, plus I have a large selection of .44 cal. boolit moulds so... it seems a .444 conversion would be a logical thing to do.

Longbow

[nekshot]

Indeed! Thanks for posting. I have been thinking of doing this for many years. I may never get to it but I saved the article just in case.

Back in the 1970's I had a Siamese Mauser converted to .45-70 and really liked it. It was an unfortunate victim of my need for money to go to college though and I never replaced it. Now that I have a growing collection of Lee Enfields I have thought .444 would be a nice conversion to make.

I have also seen Lee Enfields converted to .45-70 but I think it is a bit more involved than the .444 conversion, plus I have a large selection of .44 cal. boolit moulds so... it seems a .444 conversion would be a logical thing to do.

Longbow

and some fellas with fast twist like mine have really done well with long heavy boolits as on marlin forum

[kootne]

I'm guilty of just reading the 1rst and last page of this thread so maybe this has been covered. What about .405 Winchester in your Lee/Enfields? The case is a little longer (2-9/16"), but the bullet could probably be seated some what deeper or a bullet mold made to shift more of the bullet into the case to keep the OAL inside the magazine. I think the rims are pretty close to .303 and brass,dies etc. are available in the US, not sure about how you would go about getting that sort of stuff into NZ. The original pushed a 300 gr. jacketed bullet at 2300 fps if I remember correctly. I'm not sure what the pressures were but am pretty sure based on what they were chambered in that they were probably comparable to .30/40's, .303's etc.
Just a thought,
kootne

or .35 winchester if you wanted a little smaller bore. It uses the same rim and case with a bottleneck.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

The .303 British and the .35 Remington share a common head diameter. A cartridge called the .35 Leverpower was the .303 expanded to .35 with the Rim turned down to run through a 94 Winchester. A rimmed .35 Remington would make chambering reamer and loading dies inexpensive compared to custom. The neck could be made longer using a separate reamer. You could extend the shoulder by running the .35 Remington reamer a little deeper and still use standard dies with a .303 Brit shellholder. Should run pretty close to a .358 Winchester.

[longbow]

Yup, with a long heavy boolit in .444 it would be a formidable weapon.

Mind you I have also had a hankering for a .303-.375. Bigger than the .35's and still a good selection of boolits. I imaging that conversion would be similar to the .444 for feeding. It would be a wildcat but not hard to form brass from .303 British.

Lots of things I would like to try! Toy money is a bit tight though so it may be a while.

Maybe 303guy's results will sway me one way or the other. I will keep an eye out for future posts on this thread.

Longbow

[bart55]

Interesting thread ,I also have a Siamese mauser converted to 45 70 and a smle converted to 45 70 both are top performers .Mauser is more custom rifle with fancy wood and Nikon scope but the smle #4 Mk 1 is scout scoped with the original rear sight number 3 ruger bbl and sporter front blade .Great knockabout rifle have filled a few deer tags with it .

[taco650]

Interesting thread ,I also have a Siamese mauser converted to 45 70 and a smle converted to 45 70 both are top performers .Mauser is more custom rifle with fancy wood and Nikon scope but the smle #4 Mk 1 is scout scoped with the original rear sight number 3 ruger bbl and sporter front blade .Great knockabout rifle have filled a few deer tags with it .

Did you have the SMLE converted? If so did the bolt face require any mods like reworking the extractor? Also, I'm guessing the Ruger #3 barrel needed to be rethreaded to work.

I've seen rifles like that on the web and wondered if the conversion would be affordable enough...

[bart55]

Yes had it done about ten years ago or more,the barrel was rethreaded, I am not sure what mods he had to do, a good fried of mine did both rifles ,along with a martini cadet rebarreled to 218 bee. He is in his eighties now and doesn't do too much but what a great gunsmith. He also did a 250 savage on a small ring mauser for me along with about a dozen other projects .HE just suggested a project and I said OK .

[longbow]

Might have to modify the extractor on a Lee Enfield for .45-70 but the bolt face is flat so no problem there. My Siamese Mauser had to have the bolt face opened up some and I think the extractor ground a bit to allow the larger rim and case head. A friend bought mine from me so I still see it now and again. Nice gun!

The Mauser would be a stronger action if you want to hot rod but the Lee Enfield should be an easier conversion. Both certainly work though. I would be happy with either. The .45-70 offers more selection and availability of brass and boolits than .444.

Back to the original question... I still kinda like the idea of a .375-.303. That one appeals to me. Maybe one day!

Longbow

[taco650]

What caliber would the 303 be if it was straight walled?

[longbow]

I'd take a guess at .40 or maybe .44 if straight walled and no taper. .375-.303 is straight walled but is tapered.

I have an article on the .44 Rhino revolver wildcat that was based on .30-40 Krag brass with straight wall and shortened. I think that one was similar to .445 Supermag. So .44 is likely the answer.

Blown out straight it would be pretty similar to .444 Marlin but maybe a hair smaller diameter.

Longbow