I need a mould medic

kbstenberg · 11-03-2009, 05:46 PM

Well i have a major problem. I damaged my 503 Mihec mould. I have Galling big time on the cavity closest to the sprue pivot point. Yes i used Bull plate on both the plate an the top of the mould. Yes i took the sprue plate off an used 800grit paper to see if there was a burr.
I have tried cutting the sprue as soon as the puddle solidified, an i have waited for about 6 seconds after the sprue puddle solidified. I All ways get galling. Even on the next round after applying Bullplate.
The only thing i have noticed is that on the end of the mould where the galling is the left side of the mould is a little lower than the right side. The closer you come to the end closest to the handles the the height difference decreases. So that cavity #6 (away from the handles has the most mould eighth difference. When you get to the space between cavity #2 an#1 (closest to the handles) the eighth difference is gone.
Can i repair the damage to the top of the mould? Or do i have to send the mould to someone to have them resurface the top.
How do i adjust the mould so the 2 halves are even?
Something must have happened because i have already poured about 700 bullets over about 3 moulding sessions
Kevin

Dale53 · 11-03-2009, 06:00 PM

Kevin;
How about a nice, close up picture of the problem area? That would help us to help you...

Dale53

kbstenberg · 11-03-2009, 08:11 PM

Dale here it is.
I measured the difference in the mould levels. Its .009

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Also is there a way to clean the burn marks on the top of the mould, an keep them from occurring? What am i doing to get them?

montana_charlie · 11-03-2009, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbstenberg

Also is there a way to clean the burn marks on the top of the mould, an keep them from occurring? What am i doing to get them?

Do you smoke the cavities?
CM

Springfield · 11-03-2009, 08:44 PM

Dang, I have moulds that have 30,000 bullets through them and don't look as bad as that! Sorry, but it is true. First off, if you have galling than more than likely the mould is not up to or being kept up to temp, melted lead doesn't gall. Second, I don't know why you have that burned on brown stuff all over your mould 'cause Bullplate doesn't do that. Third, Bullplate won't keep your mould from galling, it just keeps everything lubed and keeps the lead from sticking to to mould. If the mould is to cold the lead will still gall, NOT the same as sticking. I do casting on a small commercial scale, and cast with mostly LEE 6 cav moulds. I am willing to check out your mould if you are willing to send it to me. I can do some test casting and see if it is the mould or just your technique. Maybe, just maybe Mihec moulds work differently than LEE's. I have only used steel and brass Mihec moulds so far.

theperfessor · 11-03-2009, 09:21 PM

Can you rattle or move the two halves when they are closed gently? Might be your alignment pins on one or both ends have moved into the blocks for enough to allow misalignment. If this is the case you can drift the pins out further and maybe drill and tap for a set screw to keep it from happening again.

SciFiJim · 11-03-2009, 09:21 PM

The brown stuff looks like burned on resin from resin core solder. I did that once to a mold and am still trying to clean it off.

captaint · 11-03-2009, 09:24 PM

kb, One of my questions would be - when you cast those boolits, do the noses line up right, or are they a few thou off like the bases?? Mike

MtGun44 · 11-03-2009, 09:33 PM

I, too, want to know what the nasty brown crud is. Bull Plate lube does not do that.
I think you have some other material causing buildup and failing to lube the mold and
sprue plate. The brown crud on the bolt and sprue plate is absolutely incredible for
the small amount of casting you are talking about. Any ideas what is causing this
build up???? Very much not normal. Are sure you didn't get some other lube mixed
up and think you were using Bull Plate Lube when it was aactually some kind of oil or grease
or some other petroleum product???

Bill

Dale53 · 11-03-2009, 10:17 PM

Kevin;
The brown build up is certainly NOT Bullshop's lube (as the others have also stated). It is a bit difficult to tell from the photo (and its a good photo) but it appears to me that you are NOT having galling problems. That appears to just be the contact points of the sprue plate. Lubing with Bullshop's sprue plate lube should keep that from getting worse.

The real question is, how are the bullets? Are they uniform?

I have cast a couple of thousand with my mould and am a happy camper, now.

You might be able to remove the brown substance with a good solvent. Acetone, maybe? I have seen that look when using LBT's recommended aluminum mould lube. I no longer use it...

Dale53

montana_charlie · 11-04-2009, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MtGun44

I, too, want to know what the nasty brown crud is.

It looks like carbonized beeswax/bullet lube/birthday candle residue from trying to 'lube' a hot mould with wax.

I want to know what those 'gall marks' are.

Is that a coating of lead on the surface...or gouges in the aluminum?
CM

kbstenberg · 11-04-2009, 06:00 PM

I positively do not take any offense at any comments made in a positive way.
The only chemicals i have used on the moulds has been Break cleaner an dish soap to clean the moulds. After that i have used Kroil between uses an Bullplate during moulding.
Sorry M. Charlie i have never smoked my moulds
SciFi same here, i have not used Solder in any of my Alloys. An all of my fluxing is done with sawdust.
Perfessor no there is no movement of the moulds when they are closed. But there is a very small wear mark on the alignment pin on one side of the pin showing that the pin is holding the mould out of alignment.
Sprinfield i greatly appreciate your offer to go over my mould! please PM me your address.
Captain all the boolits iv looked at look very good.
I was just thinking when i pre-heat my moulds there is sawdust on the top of the lead. When i put my mould into the lead to heat ,could some reside from the heated wood be transfered to the mould surfaces. Because all surfaces of the mould have some degree of the burnt surfaces. I try to dip the aluminum of the mould to heat. But i also turn the mould over so the edge of the sprue plate an the bolt are heated. I do that so that the first couple times i stike the sprues it is easier with the warmed plate.
After i send this i will log out an try to clean the burnt areas an try to get back later tonight with the results
Thanks to all !!!!!!!!!!!! Kevin

SciFiJim · 11-04-2009, 06:08 PM

Quote:

I was just thinking when i pre-heat my moulds there is sawdust on the top of the lead. When i put my mould into the lead to heat ,could some reside from the heated wood be transfered to the mould surfasess. Because all surfaces of the mould have some degree of the burnt surfaces. I try to dip the aluminum of the mould to heat. But i allso turn the mould over so the edge of the sprue plate an the bolt are heated.

Depending on the wood the sawdust is from, it could definitely be sawdust residue. If the sawdust is from OSB or plywood that has glue in it, that could be the culprit. Do you submerge your mold or rest it on top of the melt to heat? When I was new at this I submerged a mold after adding resin core solder. I had that stuff in the cavities as well.

If it is not in the cavities and doesn't cause binding anywhere, I would not worry about it. It will eventually burn off.

Springfield · 11-05-2009, 10:54 AM

Address sent. mwwhyte1@verizon.net

masscaster · 11-05-2009, 11:22 AM

Not having the mould on hand makes it impossible for me personally to make a diagnosis.
This could be caused by one thing, or a couple different things at once.
Lead smears aren't uncommon, especially when opening the mould a bit too fast, or the melt and mould combination too hot.
As far as the different height of the blocks goes, this to can be caused by several things.
An alignment issue, swapping handles sometimes will cure a misalinging mould. It's just hard to say.
I'm always happy to do what I can to fix a mould for someone. I get them in the shop quite frequently from the locals. This is always free, regardless if it can be fixed, or needs replaced.
Shipping back and forth is the only cost to you.
PM me if interested.
masscaster

kbstenberg · 11-05-2009, 06:22 PM

Here are some updated pictures. Last nite i used a toothbrush an Kroil for about an hour on several surfases. Let the mould soak overnite an used the brush again
the first picture is the same as last nite after cleaning. Some of the burnt areas allso extend inside the mould. If you look between the bulet cavities, you can see several areas that go from the outside surface into the cavities. I am sorry!!!! you guyes could probably tell me more about the pictures than i can tell you. I will just shut up an let the experts tell me.
Yes the scratches are in the mould.
The picture of the spruecutter is the underside. Im shutin up now.

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Springfield · 11-05-2009, 07:48 PM

I have moulds that I bought used that look worse than that and still put out perfectly good bullets. I still think at some point the mould was opened when the lead was too cold, a very common occurrence. Aluminum moulds ARE aluminum and MUST be run hot enough or damage will occur. Some people just wait too long. For example, breaking the sprue handle seems pretty common, but I have NEVER broken one. I run hot, it works.

montana_charlie · 11-06-2009, 11:15 AM

I would check the alignment of the tops of the mould blocks while not mounted on the handles.
If the tops are still uneven, I would send the mould back to the manufacturer for repair or replacement.

The gouges in the aluminum show something was 'cutting' it when the sprue plate was opened. If bullet alloy can do that, I'm amazed. Must be some hard alloy!
If it was not done by 'lead', it had to be the steel of the sprue plate...right where the holes are.
Look for slightly raised edges (of those holes) on the bottom side.

Considering everything together, I think I would send it back to the maker...and run a looser pivot screw on the new one.
CM

TAWILDCATT · 11-14-2009, 01:25 PM

I just got a lee 6 and a sizing die somewhere it says not to use the RL on a mold as the lube will harden and I have one that looks like that.so maybe some one use TL at one time.

yondering · 11-14-2009, 02:44 PM

You may be (or did at one time) run the mold way too hot. Aluminum will gall easily if it's too hot; it becomes very soft even at the temperature of your melt. Of course the mold will almost always be much cooler than your melt while casting, but if you are letting it heat up on top of your melt too long, it could be getting too hot. Bullplate lube will burn if you get it way too hot like that, so maybe that's the problem?

One other thing, boolits are "cast", not "moulded".

11-03-2009, 08:11 PM	#3
kbstenberg Boolit Master Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: northern Minn. in the boonies Posts: 228	Dale here it is. I measured the difference in the mould levels. Its .009 Also is there a way to clean the burn marks on the top of the mould, an keep them from occurring? What am i doing to get them?

11-03-2009, 08:44 PM	#5
Springfield Vendor Sponsor Join Date: May 2005 Location: San Jose, California Posts: 1,442	Dang, I have moulds that have 30,000 bullets through them and don't look as bad as that! Sorry, but it is true. First off, if you have galling than more than likely the mould is not up to or being kept up to temp, melted lead doesn't gall. Second, I don't know why you have that burned on brown stuff all over your mould 'cause Bullplate doesn't do that. Third, Bullplate won't keep your mould from galling, it just keeps everything lubed and keeps the lead from sticking to to mould. If the mould is to cold the lead will still gall, NOT the same as sticking. I do casting on a small commercial scale, and cast with mostly LEE 6 cav moulds. I am willing to check out your mould if you are willing to send it to me. I can do some test casting and see if it is the mould or just your technique. Maybe, just maybe Mihec moulds work differently than LEE's. I have only used steel and brass Mihec moulds so far. __________________ http://www.whyteleatherworks.com/

11-03-2009, 09:21 PM	#7
SciFiJim I'm A Honcho! Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Central California - the red part of a blue state Posts: 871	The brown stuff looks like burned on resin from resin core solder. I did that once to a mold and am still trying to clean it off. __________________ Honcho for the 41 Keith, 432265RFGC, 45 TriWeight WC, 429421Keith , 432300RFGC, 460425RFGC, 460350RFGC

11-03-2009, 09:33 PM	#9
MtGun44 Boolit Master Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: eastern Kansas- suburb of KC Posts: 2,392	I, too, want to know what the nasty brown crud is. Bull Plate lube does not do that. I think you have some other material causing buildup and failing to lube the mold and sprue plate. The brown crud on the bolt and sprue plate is absolutely incredible for the small amount of casting you are talking about. Any ideas what is causing this build up???? Very much not normal. Are sure you didn't get some other lube mixed up and think you were using Bull Plate Lube when it was aactually some kind of oil or grease or some other petroleum product??? Bill __________________ If it was easy, anybody could do it.

11-05-2009, 10:54 AM	#14
Springfield Vendor Sponsor Join Date: May 2005 Location: San Jose, California Posts: 1,442	Address sent. mwwhyte1@verizon.net __________________ http://www.whyteleatherworks.com/

11-03-2009, 05:46 PM	#1
kbstenberg Boolit Master Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: northern Minn. in the boonies Posts: 228	I need a mould medic Well i have a major problem. I damaged my 503 Mihec mould. I have Galling big time on the cavity closest to the sprue pivot point. Yes i used Bull plate on both the plate an the top of the mould. Yes i took the sprue plate off an used 800grit paper to see if there was a burr. I have tried cutting the sprue as soon as the puddle solidified, an i have waited for about 6 seconds after the sprue puddle solidified. I All ways get galling. Even on the next round after applying Bullplate. The only thing i have noticed is that on the end of the mould where the galling is the left side of the mould is a little lower than the right side. The closer you come to the end closest to the handles the the height difference decreases. So that cavity #6 (away from the handles has the most mould eighth difference. When you get to the space between cavity #2 an#1 (closest to the handles) the eighth difference is gone. Can i repair the damage to the top of the mould? Or do i have to send the mould to someone to have them resurface the top. How do i adjust the mould so the 2 halves are even? Something must have happened because i have already poured about 700 bullets over about 3 moulding sessions Kevin

11-03-2009, 06:00 PM	#2
Dale53 Boolit Master Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Southwestern Ohio Posts: 4,504	Kevin; How about a nice, close up picture of the problem area? That would help us to help you... Dale53

11-03-2009, 09:21 PM	#6
theperfessor Boolit Master Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: southern indiana Posts: 551	Can you rattle or move the two halves when they are closed gently? Might be your alignment pins on one or both ends have moved into the blocks for enough to allow misalignment. If this is the case you can drift the pins out further and maybe drill and tap for a set screw to keep it from happening again. __________________ ******************** Technology is an applied science, i.e., it translates the discoveries of theoretical science into practical application to man’s life. As such, technology is not the first step in the development of a given body of knowledge, but the last; it is not the most difficult step, but it is the ultimate step, the implicit purpose, of man's quest for knowledge. [Ayn Rand, 1969]

11-03-2009, 09:24 PM	#8
captaint Boolit Master Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: southeastern PA Posts: 238	kb, One of my questions would be - when you cast those boolits, do the noses line up right, or are they a few thou off like the bases?? Mike

11-03-2009, 10:17 PM	#10
Dale53 Boolit Master Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Southwestern Ohio Posts: 4,504	Kevin; The brown build up is certainly NOT Bullshop's lube (as the others have also stated). It is a bit difficult to tell from the photo (and its a good photo) but it appears to me that you are NOT having galling problems. That appears to just be the contact points of the sprue plate. Lubing with Bullshop's sprue plate lube should keep that from getting worse. The real question is, how are the bullets? Are they uniform? I have cast a couple of thousand with my mould and am a happy camper, now. You might be able to remove the brown substance with a good solvent. Acetone, maybe? I have seen that look when using LBT's recommended aluminum mould lube. I no longer use it... Dale53

11-04-2009, 06:00 PM	#12
kbstenberg Boolit Master Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: northern Minn. in the boonies Posts: 228	I positively do not take any offense at any comments made in a positive way. The only chemicals i have used on the moulds has been Break cleaner an dish soap to clean the moulds. After that i have used Kroil between uses an Bullplate during moulding. Sorry M. Charlie i have never smoked my moulds SciFi same here, i have not used Solder in any of my Alloys. An all of my fluxing is done with sawdust. Perfessor no there is no movement of the moulds when they are closed. But there is a very small wear mark on the alignment pin on one side of the pin showing that the pin is holding the mould out of alignment. Sprinfield i greatly appreciate your offer to go over my mould! please PM me your address. Captain all the boolits iv looked at look very good. I was just thinking when i pre-heat my moulds there is sawdust on the top of the lead. When i put my mould into the lead to heat ,could some reside from the heated wood be transfered to the mould surfaces. Because all surfaces of the mould have some degree of the burnt surfaces. I try to dip the aluminum of the mould to heat. But i also turn the mould over so the edge of the sprue plate an the bolt are heated. I do that so that the first couple times i stike the sprues it is easier with the warmed plate. After i send this i will log out an try to clean the burnt areas an try to get back later tonight with the results Thanks to all !!!!!!!!!!!! Kevin

11-05-2009, 11:22 AM	#15
masscaster Vendor Sponsor Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Pekin, Illinois U.S.A Posts: 96	Not having the mould on hand makes it impossible for me personally to make a diagnosis. This could be caused by one thing, or a couple different things at once. Lead smears aren't uncommon, especially when opening the mould a bit too fast, or the melt and mould combination too hot. As far as the different height of the blocks goes, this to can be caused by several things. An alignment issue, swapping handles sometimes will cure a misalinging mould. It's just hard to say. I'm always happy to do what I can to fix a mould for someone. I get them in the shop quite frequently from the locals. This is always free, regardless if it can be fixed, or needs replaced. Shipping back and forth is the only cost to you. PM me if interested. masscaster __________________ Forefather's Casting For Muzzleloading Projectiles stop in at the Vendor Sponsor Thread and look for us under "Forefather's Muzzleloading Projectiles". Muzzleloaders use this Link: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=66306 Big Bore Cartridge/BPCR Coming Soon! Last edited by masscaster; 11-05-2009 at 11:23 AM. Reason: added a line

11-05-2009, 06:22 PM	#16
kbstenberg Boolit Master Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: northern Minn. in the boonies Posts: 228	Here are some updated pictures. Last nite i used a toothbrush an Kroil for about an hour on several surfases. Let the mould soak overnite an used the brush again the first picture is the same as last nite after cleaning. Some of the burnt areas allso extend inside the mould. If you look between the bulet cavities, you can see several areas that go from the outside surface into the cavities. I am sorry!!!! you guyes could probably tell me more about the pictures than i can tell you. I will just shut up an let the experts tell me. Yes the scratches are in the mould. The picture of the spruecutter is the underside. Im shutin up now.

11-05-2009, 07:48 PM	#17
Springfield Vendor Sponsor Join Date: May 2005 Location: San Jose, California Posts: 1,442	I have moulds that I bought used that look worse than that and still put out perfectly good bullets. I still think at some point the mould was opened when the lead was too cold, a very common occurrence. Aluminum moulds ARE aluminum and MUST be run hot enough or damage will occur. Some people just wait too long. For example, breaking the sprue handle seems pretty common, but I have NEVER broken one. I run hot, it works. __________________ http://www.whyteleatherworks.com/

11-06-2009, 11:15 AM	#18
montana_charlie I'm A Honcho! Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: West of Great Falls, Montana Posts: 4,756	I would check the alignment of the tops of the mould blocks while not mounted on the handles. If the tops are still uneven, I would send the mould back to the manufacturer for repair or replacement. The gouges in the aluminum show something was 'cutting' it when the sprue plate was opened. If bullet alloy can do that, I'm amazed. Must be some hard alloy! If it was not done by 'lead', it had to be the steel of the sprue plate...right where the holes are. Look for slightly raised edges (of those holes) on the bottom side. Considering everything together, I think I would send it back to the maker...and run a looser pivot screw on the new one. CM __________________ Retired...TWICE. Now just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

11-14-2009, 01:25 PM	#19
TAWILDCATT Boolit Master Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: MANNING SC Posts: 1,424	mold I just got a lee 6 and a sizing die somewhere it says not to use the RL on a mold as the lube will harden and I have one that looks like that.so maybe some one use TL at one time. __________________ WILDCATT

11-14-2009, 02:44 PM	#20
yondering Boolit Master Join Date: May 2008 Location: NW Washington State Posts: 764	You may be (or did at one time) run the mold way too hot. Aluminum will gall easily if it's too hot; it becomes very soft even at the temperature of your melt. Of course the mold will almost always be much cooler than your melt while casting, but if you are letting it heat up on top of your melt too long, it could be getting too hot. Bullplate lube will burn if you get it way too hot like that, so maybe that's the problem? One other thing, boolits are "cast", not "moulded".