Range Day with PaperPatched 50 Flintlock

[Themoose]

The wind finally laid down and I got some range time today with my RMC Accusporter(modern Flintlock made here in PA) it has a Green Mtn 1:28 twist with fiber optic sights... not a sniper rifle, but I was very pleasantly surprised... even more surprised with no other shooters on the range only days before rifle season opens... I took advantage of the solitude and set up my chronograph to do some load testing using Swiss 3F behind my 455 gr paperpatched plains style bullet from a mountain mold with a home cut felt wad. I shot groups with 80, 85 and 90 grains at 50 yds and settled on the 90 grain loads from both accuracy and velocity standpoints... I was able to keep all groups under 3" at 50 yds which is great for me... I was next surprised to see how much better the 90 grain loads shot @ 100yds when I compaired them to 80 grain loads tested about 10 days ago.. again tighter groups and less drop...I did weigh the powder charges to see how consistant they were and here is my 5 shot string @ 100 yds... 1335,1347,1348,1342 and 1341 fps(ran cleaning patch after each shot)...and the Swiss seemed to burn so much cleaner than the Goex that I was shooting... the energy, by the way, calc'd by the chrono averaged about 1820 ft/lbs.... think that should leave a welt on Bambi,

I don't want to mislead folks in any way... I shot these off a rest...I still have yet to master the flintlock, although the ignition time today seemed much faster... The fiber optic front sight completely covered up the six inch target @ 100yds, but only 1 shot strayed from the orange circle and by less than an inch... 4 were in a nice cluster about the size of a tennis ball... at least now, I have more confidence in the gun & load... actually looking forward to some more trigger time... again thanks to idahoron and Johnson1942 for helping me out with the paperpatching...

Happy Thanksgiving and good luck in the deer woods to all!

TheMoose

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Sounds like good solid hunting accuracy to me, especially since you are new to flintlocks. Play around with pan charges. My traditions Hawken woodsman likes about 6 grains of 4fg in the pan and just is instant and sounds like a sharper crack.

[koger]

Sounds like a good day shooting, good results! IdahoRon and Johnson 1942 are great guys, very, very knowledgeable. I spent time hunting with Roger last winter, and on 12-1-16, he and I will be chasing mulies again with ML's, barring any unforeseen tragedy! He schooled me on so many new ML hacks it aint funny, and I am no greenhorn. He talked me into the Blackhorn 209, and I now have the 2 best shooting ML's I have ever fooled with, shooting sub MOA groups, out to 300yds, with a scope set up to do so!

[johnson1942]

great story moose, and keep the post coming. i have never ever seen a hunter dress a deer or pheasants as fast and clean as koger. koger is better than davy crocket. he is teaching my son all these things and matthew went out and set up a trail cam on a ranch south of my place and im going to put a pile of corn in front of it. it may get us some results. we will see what comes to it.

[Lead Fred]

Your wasting powder, no way a 50 cal can burn 90gr before it exits the barrel.
Look up the Davenport formula. It will show yo the max powder that can be burnt inside the barrel.

I used 55gr inside 100 yards, and 110gr out side 100 yards. The Davenport formula showed me my max usable powder was 74.5gr. All the rest is wasted.

[Themoose]

I appreciate all the comments.. I am no authority and only wanted to share my experience... flintlock is a challenge for me and a welcomed and much needed distraction to my current situation. Lead Fred I do not doubt your comments or intent, but again I only shared info that I experienced... I did not put down a white sheet in front of the firing line to see the unburnt powder... I did, however use both targets and a chronograph in an effort to learn more about my particular rifle...I saw and measured a difference in the additonal 10 grains of 3F Swiss... it resulted in a flatter trajectory and about 120 more FPS... the latter indicates that some of the additional powder was not wasted and was actually burned... I have learned a lot of things in life by reading, but my best (at least best remembered things) came from personal experience...

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Your wasting powder, no way a 50 cal can burn 90gr before it exits the barrel.
Look up the Davenport formula. It will show yo the max powder that can be burnt inside the barrel.

I used 55gr inside 100 yards, and 110gr out side 100 yards. The Davenport formula showed me my max usable powder was 74.5gr. All the rest is wasted.

Don't believe everything you read. I've shot 10's of thousands of round down range with loads of 110-120gr pyrodex, american pioneer, blackhorn209, goex and olde eynsford. They all have their specific needs for best accuracy. For plinking, yes, keep it light as its just a waste of powder. But I can say this, at 150 yards, no way in hell will 55 grains of powder cut it!

[johnson1942]

moose, im glad someone finally did a paperpatched fast twist muzzleloader. its been a long time coming and now more will follow. that is the perfection of being self sufficiant and dropping heavy game.

[Good Cheer]

Themoose,
My current experimental flinter is a Renegade standard 26" barrel rebored to .52. Set up to use the same off the shelf fifty rifle molds paper patched as does my 38" long barrel percussion. Part of my work ups will be figuring out how much shot to shot variation is induced by the larger size flash hole openings (as opposed to percussion nipples). I'd like to request that if you see something along those lines please do post your thoughts.
Thanks before hand and good luck on your flinter.

[Themoose]

Good Cheer. I do have a 50 caplock I could use and chronograph for you if it would help. It is an old TC Harken with 1:48 twist not fast twist. Let me know if that would help

[johnson1942]

moose i ment to say a fast twist flintlock muzzle loader, what i said before made no sense. an aged moment. for a long time ive been thinking that it should be done in a flinter. it has even been talked about before here on cast boolits. the neg is some say and they could be right that the flash hole would burn out fast with a more heavier bullet in front of the powder. i doubt it but im not a flint shooter so i dont know. please keep us posted as to how it all goes so we can all learn from this.

[longbow]

From what I have read about the Davenport formula (which is limited), it applies to round balls, not conical boolits and is based on efficient burning of the powder not on ultimate achievable velocity. So while charges over 74.5 grs. may not be efficient, velocity and energy do increase significantly within safe pressures. You certainly get diminishing returns on velocity and energy per grain of powder as charges increase beyond a certain point which may well be 74.5 grs.

According to the Lyman Black Powder Handbook for .50 cal. barrel at 32" long and 370 gr. Maxi over G-O FFFg:

- 50 gr. powder = 1116 FPS; energy at 100 yards = 612 ft.-lbs.; this gives 12.24 ft.-lbs. per grain
- 75 gr. powder = 1370 FPS; energy at 100 yards = 770 ft.-lbs.; this gives 10.27 ft.-lbs. per grain
- 90 gr. powder = 1467 FPS; energy at 100 yards = 837 ft.-lbs.; this gives 9.3 ft.-lbs. per grain

for .50 cal. barrel at 43" long and 370 gr. Maxi ~

- 50 gr. powder = 1154 FPS; energy at 100 yards = 636 ft.-lbs.; this gives 12.72 ft.-lbs. per grain
- 75 gr. powder = 1425 FPS; energy at 100 yards = 807 ft.-lbs.; this gives 10.76 ft.-lbs. per grain
- 90 gr. powder = 1542 FPS; energy at 100 yards = 895 ft.-lbs.; this gives 9.94 ft.-lbs. per grain

This is not exactly what you have being lighter projectile and slow twist (1:66") but should be representative.

Barrel length obviously plays into this as well as a longer barrel gives more time for powder to burn though I believe the Davenport formula takes that into account by using barrel volume.

So for 32" barrel the velocity gain from 50 grs. to 75 grs. is 158 FPS and the velocity gain from 75 grs. to 90 grs. is 67 FPS so less than half the velocity increase for the same increase in powder charge. Not efficient by any means but there are are still significant velocity and energy increases. For target shooting only trajectory and consistent velocity matters but for hunting velocity and energy matter as well.

By the way, 90 grs. was the top charge listed as pressure was 15,600 CUP which seems to be the max. pressure they run to. All loads generated less than 16,000 CUP for .36, .40, .45, .50 and .54 cal's. ~ generally max. pressures listed are from about 14,000 to 15,000+ CUP.

Maxi's have very low ballistic coefficient so likely your boolit will carry energy to 100 yards and beyond better unless it is a wadcutter design.

Longbow

[Tatume]

moose, im glad someone finally did a paperpatched fast twist [flintlock] muzzleloader. its been a long time coming and now more will follow. that is the perfection of being self sufficiant and dropping heavy game.

My 45 with 1:16" GM barrel is supposed to be ready by Christmas. It's been a long time waiting.

[johnson1942]

tatume, that will take a 550 grain bullet with ease. let us know how it turns out.

[Good Cheer]

Good Cheer. I do have a 50 caplock I could use and chronograph for you if it would help. It is an old TC Harken with 1:48 twist not fast twist. Let me know if that would help

Thank you for the offer sir but I should explain for clarity...
What I'm puzzling over is shot to shot variation in shot placement that has it's source in the variations resulting from the larger outlet of gas from the breech area that is provided by a flintlock flash hole.
My theory is that the larger outlet flow is going to result in less consistency from shot to shot.

Some time in the future (after this house addition gets done) I will be testing the .52 flinter with 420 to 525 weight range boolits.

[mooman76]

As far as the Davenport formula it is not an exact science just like the Green Hill formula. They are just tools that get you close. Another thing is with a tighter twist barrel, the projectile will be in the gun longer and it being a conical will develop more pressure so the BP will burn better.

[Good Cheer]

Themoose,
By the way, please do post your results. This is a subject dear to my heart.