cast 230gr bullets breaking in toaster oven

[NATJAC]

When I get broken boolits like your photo, it is usually because I dumped them from the mold before they were sufficiently cool. How long did it take for the sprue to cool with your "hot" boolits? This is not an exact science, and probably no two people use the exact same alloy. If you let the alloy level in your pot get too low it will cause the temp to rise. I keep the level in my casting pot within an inch of the top by returning sprues back into pot immediately, also have toaster oven set to 375 preheating my ingots to keep level up. You might check into a PID controller to keep temp under control. Lastly, put your location in your name box, maybe someone that is located close to you will offer hands on help.

The sprue would glaze over in about 5 or 6 seconds, as soon as it glazed i used my hand to turn the sprue plate.. seems to produce cleaner bases. I think i was dropping about 5-6 castings per minute, i read i should only be doing about 3.

Re: Fred: "Not sure a full Lee pot will get to 900deg" I had to put my pot on setting #2 to get down to 600 degrees.. most people use #7.. i think my pot is a little HOT.

Thanks all for the advice!

[Smoke4320]

With that long bullet it needs to be a little cooler and drop on nice soft cloth or into water
3 casts at 715-730 would be plenty and possibly a little to fast

[reddog81]

I wouldn't be surprised if my Lee 4 20 could get to 900. I once turned it on and walked away with it turned all the way up and when I came back a while later the lead was glowing red hot.

I usually set it on 6 to warm up, and turn it down to 4 once it's fully melted and I start casting. Then once I've got a good rhythm going I turn it down to 2 or 3.

i used a thermometer a couple of times but once I got the hang of casting and reading the bullets, the mold, and the sprue it seemed like an extraneous part of the whole process.

[Motor]

How do you use your hand to turn the sprue plate? I cut my sprue with a wooden mallet. In fact the mallet stays in my right hand (I'm right handed) the whole time. I only set it down to open the bottom pour valve.

The wooden mallet is awesome. I use it to rap on the mould to make sure it's closed, then close the sprue plate, then cut the sprue, then to tap the open mould which makes the boolits drop out.

I have experienced the deformation of hot boolits too. I cast a .501" 440gr. It can fall through 6 inches of water and hit another boolit and come out deformed.

Like everyone else said, nice thing about casting is mistakes simply go back in the pot.

Motor

[dikman]

My first PID had a bypass switch that I would use during the initial heating of the pot (Lee Pro 20). It seemed like a good idea when I built the PID, but is actually pretty pointless. Anyhow, the first time I used it I left the pot for awhile and when I checked the temp (the PID was still capable of reading temp) it was over 900! So yes, it can do it.

Motor, I do like you with the mallet, except I still hold it while operating the lever.

[Walter Laich]

You can find a stand along oven thermometer at Wally World for about $6. I used it before I built my PID for the oven. It's in cooking section. On a metal bracket that lets the gauge sit up so it's easy to see.

Another great thing about this part of shooting is all the mistakes disappear back into the casting pot

[Echd]

Not sure a full Lee pot will get to 900deg, maybe. I would also verify the oven temp, cook less time, cool 100% before removing the bullets from the plate. I've been casting on & off for 35yrs, never "broken" a bullet.

I have broken them, but they were extremely hard and water dropped, so odds are the extreme temp shift had fractured them already.

[NATJAC]

RE: Motor: "How do you use your hand to turn the sprue plate?" when the sprue glazes over i grab the mold with my hand and use my thumb to turn the plate. it's just a two bullet mold.

Reddog81: I cast a few more bullets a couple of nights ago and my setting was around 2 or 3 as well.. that setting maintained a temp of just shy of 700 degrees... i'm REALLY glad i bought a thermometer!! if i didn't, i would have some pretty HOT lead on setting #7 !! This time the bullets turned out GREAT!! not completely frosted over...

smoke4320: i slowed way down this time on this last casting session, counted to 10 seconds before dropping and counting to 15 seconds before closing the mold to pour again. Fine looking bullets, i almost feel bad shooting them.


I have another question though, when i turn the sprue plate, the base seems to have a small smear/jagged edge of lead that is left of the base of the boolit, do i need to trim that off? i'm just thinking they would be more susceptible to the flame from burning powder thus leaving lead in the barrel.

[.30 Rem]

It sounds to me like you are opening the sprue too soon. Boolits should have a flat base.

[NATJAC]

It sounds to me like you are opening the sprue too soon. Boolits should have a flat base.

The bases are flat, but the edges are a little jagged. do you think if i wait a little longer to open the sprue they will turn out better?

[dahermit]

I suspect that the alloy you were using had way too much Anitmony in it, which caused an extended "mushy" (crystiline, grainy condition), which caused the bullets to fall apart in the oven. I would suggest diluting your alloy with pure lead, or add a whole lot of tin...which is prohibitively expensive.

In any event, here is a post (see dahermit), I did on the subject some years ago: http://thefiringline.com/forums/arch...?t-454208.html

[John Boy]

NATJAC: Many good responses to your issues. But the main one is your casting of the bullets:
* Heat the pot & mold to a temperature so with a 5 second pour, the sprue puddle frosts in 5 - 8 seconds. And with the radiation lead, the pot temperature will frost the sprue puddle at 750F or less
* When the puddle frosts ... Then cut the sprue plate and dump the bullet
* Hold the pot temperature constant (yes, a thermometer is a must cast tool)
Shake & Baking the bullets - your on your own ... just follow the advice given.
BTW - put your cast thermometer in the oven to determine the temp and HOLD IT THERE

[dahermit]

NATJAC: Many good responses to your issues. But the main one is your casting of the bullets:
* Heat the pot & mold to a temperature so with a 5 second pour, the sprue puddle frosts in 5 - 8 seconds. And with the radiation lead, the pot temperature will frost the sprue puddle at 750F or less
* When the puddle frosts ... Then cut the sprue plate and dump the bullet
* Hold the pot temperature constant (yes, a thermometer is a must cast tool)
Shake & Baking the bullets - your on your own ... just follow the advice given.
BTW - put your cast thermometer in the oven to determine the temp and HOLD IT THERE

His problem is not the temperature he at which he is casting, it is heat at which the bullet "slumping"/beating in the oven. The oven is too hot for that alloy. See my post (and the others at that site), above that pertains to the mushy stage of high-antimony bullet alloys.

[robertbank]

One often overlooked source of tin are radiator shops. The slag/drippings they get off the floor is 50-50 lead tin. I get it for free at our local radiator shop. You get a lot of waste with it but I would guess the ratio would be 75% alloy.

Take Care

Bob

[NATJAC]

Hey guys, thanks for all of the replies! I turned the oven down to 350 and no breaking or bent bullets.. so we are good to go.
here's what they look like.. the coverage is pretty thin but, for the most part, the rings and base fairly covered! do i really need to do another coating?
The way i baked them was i drilled a hole in a piece of thin metal and stuck them all nose down. I'm not sure if i like that because the bullets were really sticking in the holes and even scratching the lead as i pulled them out.. and the excessive handling of them knocked off powder from the bullets as i was trying to stand them into the holes. Next time, I am going to just pile them in a wire mesh tray and see if they come out better.

[RP]

Not bad at all just need to fine tune you method and you will be fine.

[GabbyM]

Don't feel to bad. About five years ago. I put about 2,200 bullets of 22 caliber in a kitchen gas oven to heat treat. Found out those little 22's heat up quick and maybe my oven was to hot. When I dumped them in the cold water they crystalized. Many broke and all were junk. Simply got those little things to hot.

Upside is there weren't undetected flaws that may of shown up after I'd loaded up 500 rounds. Since then I always hammer test heat treated bullets. Just a few out of a batch. Plus I'll never place over 2,000 bullets in an oven at one time again.

[NATJAC]

Thanks for all the help!