Powder choice in leading problems

[tacotime]

Had various leading issues, even in some sixguns where the bullets well filled the cylinder throats and the loads were mid-range.

Question: Skipping the all the various leading causes, what about powder choice only?

I was once told by a CB manufacturer to avoid Bullseye and Titegroup and look for medium rate powders even with a hard cast bullet. Suggested were 700x and Trail Boss. These were not +P loads.

Do you think much weight should be given to this advice?

Thanks.

[mr surveyor]

Had various leading issues, even in some sixguns where the bullets well filled the cylinder throats and the loads were mid-range.

Question: Skipping the all the various leading causes, what about powder choice only?

I was once told by a CB manufacturer to avoid Bullseye and Titegroup and look for medium rate powders even with a hard cast bullet. Suggested were 700x and Trail Boss. These were not +P loads.

Do you think much weight should be given to this advice?

Thanks.

My opinion for the "question" would be "No", concerning the burn rate suggestion only. I believe you will find 700x slightly faster on the burn rate chart and Trail Boss slightly slower than the two powders suggested to be avoided. I would consider all four powders mentioned to be "fast" powders .... considering burn rate only.


jd

[tacotime]

The chart I found has BE and TG ahead of 700x (but 700X ahead of Unique). I could not locate TB on there.

[Scharfschuetze]

I use Tightgroup and Bullseye almost exclusively for light or non +P loads in the 32 S&W Long, 38 Special, 41 Magnum, the 45 ACP and 45 Colt.

Not sure why you were advised against these powders, but I burn quite a bit of both with great success without any leading within their pressure limitations.

[runfiverun]

powder burn speed is pretty relative.
red-dot,700-x, titegroup, and bulls-eye are all so close you'd be hard pressed to tell them apart.
that one other powder the umm trail boss is high pressure low gas volume stuff.

now to the actual question.
bhn and peak pressure at the moment in time where the boolit is can influence leading.
if it's after a tight spot then you shouldn't see any if it's before that spot and the pressure drops off, you'll probably see some.

[tacotime]

The guidance was from a commercial caster who takes great pride in his work.

I have seen many mentions about the hottest powders contributing to leading though.

I'm using the largest I could find at .314 and the M-Die. Had leading at lower speeds but decreased up near the max non +P loads, but still some traces even with Alox over the existing lube. These bullets do fill the throats.

[bobthenailer]

In my experience I got more leading with Unique powder than with Bullseye or Tightgroup, with loads at the same velocity with cast bullets, in 32 acp , 380 , 9mm, 38 super, 38 , 357 , 44m, 45 acp & 454 casull ,excellent accuracy in every senairo. with several handguns & bullet moulds in each caliber.

Over the past 40 years I burnt several 8 lb kegs of Bullseye and when Tightgroup came out I switched to it and have used several 8 lb kegs of it .

I haven't bought any Unique for about 35 years , but it seems someone sooner or later gives me some , I currently have about a pound of Unique on the shelf. if the can is unopened I sell it to another loader.

[texasbilly]

There are a number of factors that will cause barrel leading from cast bullets. Among others, these include bullet velocity, bullet hardness, bullet shape, condition of the barrel, plain base bullet (no gas check), type of bullet lube, etc. Of all the factors that cause leading, I'm certain that powder is an issue - but a minor one. I understand the question, but if leading is a problem, I suggest that you look elsewhere for the cause/solution.

[Maximumbob54]

Hogwash. All powder burns hot enough that if it were going to create a problem then they all would. This is a rumor probably older than I am that just won't die. Leading is caused by poor fit to the bore, wrong alloy for pressure, or inferior/improper lube. Nothing more, nothing less.

[fryboy]

ummm "The guidance was from a commercial caster who takes great pride in his work."

and wishes to sell his product .... everyone should take great pride in their work - that however doesnt mean that it's correct for your application ( consider a pair of pliers will work in place of a wrench , the nut gets loosened but there's a price to pay , sometimes skinned knuckles and always a marred nut )
hard isnt always better ( just sayin' ) nor is commercial type lubes , hard lubes for some reason tend to best at either end of the spectrum and not so much everywhere else , the lower end is less demanding so many many things will work , the upper end may actually cause enough pressure for the lube to flow , fit is most important yet it also depends upon where the leading is and sometimes folks mistake antimony wash for leading ( dont get me wrong it's all fouling but ... ) powder can affect the load but to a lesser extent than sizing and hardness , peak pressure comes to mind , my mantra has oft been use a slow of a powder as i can , true i may use more powder that way but it's not always about saving money ( and the little bit of difference doesnt add up very quick anyways , even less so if the faster powder is problematic ) you can try slower powders in a head to head comparison but methinks you'll still see problems with these castings , my best suggestion is to try and tumble lube them over his lube and see if that alleviates your problem

[Larry Gibson]

Hogwash...... .

Larry Gibson

[DRSLYR]

The only handgun I own that leads up is my Ruger Super Blackhawk. I use Red Dot & Bullseye.

DRSLYR

[popper]

To answer the OP question, yes it can/does.

powder can affect the load (sic. leading) but to a lesser extent than sizing and hardness , peak pressure comes to mind

I tried WST in 9mm, got leading, HP38 is OK. Dropped the load a couple tenths and WST is OK now. Hard boolits cause leading - nope. Shot 36+ BHN in 308W 26-2700 fps sized to bore! No leading - 2 different range trips to confirm. All my boolits are coated, just eliminates lube from the equation. That leaves the pressure curve and all the gyrations from the case to the muzzle. Think of pounding your boolit down a corrugated pipe, revolvers have more corrugations than autoloaders or bolts. Lead work softens FAST. And we are trying to twist the marshmellow at the same time. So we experiment by changing all the variables WE can control. So my answer is a light load of fast powder works but you get to put up with the results - a better lube and harder boolits may help.

[Gofaaast]

I call BS also. Fit is King hardness is Queen. Get this correct and you are 98% home. I'm with Bob, Tightgroup is my go to powder and no leading issues.

[NuJudge]

I see opinions from a lot of .45 acp shooters that they feel the hardness of the bullet should be in proportion to the pressure of the cartridge. For low pressure cartridges like the .45 acp, they like soft bullets. They like harder bullets for higher pressure. Maybe it works for them, but it never worked for me.

As noted, the bullet has to be big enough. I've never felt I had a problem caused by bullets being too hard, except in hollow based muzzleloader bullets. So long as I can get them through the Lubricator/Sizer, harder is better.

In terms of powder, I typically go on the slow side. I load on a progressive for a lot of calibers and I want to be able to clearly see a double charge or a light charge.

[Ole Joe Clarke]

I've been casting and reloading since about 1975 and this is the first time I've heard that certain powders causes leading. It's kinda like doing genealogy, where is your documentation?

[tacotime]

Not holding out much hope for getting any documentation, or getting back the Creedence.

Does anybody know the approximate temperature inside a case when powder burns? I am sure there are some technical guys around that do.

And in a related question, at what temperature would be hot enough for typical cast lead burn or vaporize in the milliseconds it is exposed to powder flame?

And then to tie it all together is there any overlap in these two temperature ranges, such that possibly one powder gets into the lead burning temperature range while others powders do not?

I would have to say there is an overlap since I have seen what appears to be some burning/vaporization/erosion of the plain bases of some bullets.

[Maximumbob54]

Have no clue but if it was that big of a deal then paper patched bullets wouldn't work. Many bullet lubes burn before lead melts so that wouldn't work. A couple of the different bullet coatings I've used burn off before the bullets (rejects after coating) melt back down. Do you see where I'm going with this? The powder burn has zilch to do with this. If exposed lead bases vaporized enough to create lead vapor then you would have leading from most jacketed bullets. I think it's the lead styphnate in primers that causes lead vapors and is the reason you need good ventilation at indoor ranges. But powders burning lead bullets is just a crock. Your guy may make outstanding cast bullets but he's got some bad info.

[tacotime]

Not sure if there is a real difference between melting and burning in this context but as a counter point I have seen eroded/pitted bases on certain recovered bullets, so some lead I assume had melted or vaporized. I just wonder why some bullets show it on the base and some don't.

[Motor]

The only handgun I own that leads up is my Ruger Super Blackhawk. I use Red Dot & Bullseye.

DRSLYR

POWDER COATING !!!!

My 41 magnum Ruger Blackhawk "was" my most finicky pistol when it came to lead fouling. Notice I wrote "was". Now that I have switched to powder coating it runs as clean as j-word ammo.

Back on topic: I don't think hot as in heat had anything to do with the recommendation the OP received. It has to do with quickness of pressure rise. There is some validity to it but how much of it is relevant is another thing. Just look through data that lists pressure along with velocity and you will find some powders generated the same or even higher velocity with less peek pressure than others. If your alloy strength was marginal than you could see leading issues with one powder and not another while obtaining equal velocity.

That being said, I still have to quote "Hogwash"

As far as Bullseye vs Unique goes I use a good bit of both. From my own personal experience with using them for cast boolits in pistol calibers I have found I can create equal good results with either in many cases. Being cheap, I typically go with Bullseye when this occurs because you use less of it.

Motor