high velocity with cast.

[Mike H]

Disappointing to see it go again,It is the most interesting subject on Cast Boolits.Please bring it back.
Mike.

[MBTcustom]

Well anyway, here is the post that I tried to make in the XCB thread before it went poof. Maybe Detox and Tim will see it here.



Shot doesn't have additional arsenic to make them harder. Shot is dropped and the mfg.'s use arsenic for the simple reason that shot will not drop round without arsenic although it is a Pb/Sb/As alloy and quenched so it I harder. As for heat treating arsenic has a profound effect on the age/strengthening of Pb/Sb alloys but 3/4 of 1% is no better than 1/4 of 1%, adding more does nothing for the HT. Arsenic itself will add minor hardening even if the alloy isn't HT'd simply because it is harder than lead.



Simply because trying to size 30 BHN bullets is very tough on the lubrisizer and very tough on the guy using the lubrisizer. I tried it ONCE and I have the bent Star handle to prove it. Never again. Cast, size & seat checks at your convenience then HT sized bullets with the checks installed. After drying they are lubed in a die .001" larger than the die they were sized with. If desired they can then be loaded and age harden while seated in the brass.

Rick

Your first comment is one of the nuggets that are hidden in this forum. Fascinating fascinating. When I was a kid, my dad told me about the shot towers and how it was made. I tried to do the same thing (ever see a kid pouring molten lead off the roof of his parents house? LOL!) and found just what you said, the shot didn't come out like anything but splatters. I always figured it was because I wasn't high enough, but if what you said was correct, then it was the COWW alloy I was using. Thank you sir! that's been bugging me for years.

So you're saying that adding magnum shot to the alloy is about as good as it gets because .2 % arsenic is all that can contribute to the hardness of the bullets? (please correct me if I misunderstood).

As to your second comment:
Yeah, I didn't think that through all the way. HTed bullet = hard bullets. Duh.

[Hamish]

I'm having a REALLY hard time understanding why entire threads are being given the Uncle Joe treatment instead of having the off base posts excised. If the thread is gone, the controversy is gone? Is that the logic?

Anyone and everyone who read these threads get SOMETHING out of these threads.

(ahem). If you don't like the burnt parts on the edge of your steak, cut the burnt parts off, don't throw the steak away,,,,,,,,

[45 2.1]

Have you guys tried water quenched magnum birdshot.

That alloy and heat treatment has been written about extensively by Frank "Paco" Kelley. He sells a book about his loads also. He has used it to go to full jacketed velocity/accuracy in quite a few firearms.

[geargnasher]

Arsenic is a grain refiner to lead, that's how it works to make it "hard", by reducing grain size, like the difference between OSB and particle board.

Gear

[ballistim]

Have you guys tried water quenched magnum birdshot.

That alloy and heat treatment has been written about extensively by Frank "Paco" Kelley. He sells a book about his loads also. He has used it to go to full jacketed velocity/accuracy in quite a few firearms.

Do you know the title of the book? I'd like to get a hold of it.

[MBTcustom]

All in good time sir! Cu alloys is one of the four methods I want to learn before its all over.
Yes, I am behind, and I beg your pardon, and that of the participants. I've been away getting rid of a stress induced ulcer. Trust me it's better this way! I've got a long weekend coming up and I'll try to catch up.

[tomme boy]

Tim, here you go. We have a bunch of these all over the place.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Dubu...A&ved=0CDAQsAQ

[MBTcustom]

Hey Tomme, good to see ya!

Yes, I know what a shot tower is. Dad wouldn't let me build one, and told me to get off the roof with my lead pot. LOL!

BTW, Did you make any more headway with your rifle?

[btroj]

goodsteel,
Its obvious that you're a might behind the curve...As is toxic, but enhances Pb, Sb, Sn to precipitate harden. As is used in shot production to enable the Pb or Pb Sb to become more spherical.

A little time saving suggestion, increase the Cu or Cu, Sn in your boolits enough and you won't need to heat treat, won't need gas checks, and won't have to worry about barrel leading.

Won't need heat treat or gas checks? Got some targets and chrono data to back that up?

I seem to remember the MI guys using a check design and water droppng the bullets. Not sure who around these parts has done more work with the Cu alloy than them.

Take a look at this link. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...s-this-further

Specific mention is made by Mike to water dropping, a form of heat treating. One of the bullets he mentioned in his comments about the Cu alloys was very similar to this one. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-grains/page28

Looks like a check and heat treating might just be a good idea even with the Cu in the alloy.

[.30-06 fan]

can a solid copper round bar be pressed formed into a bullet shape? i wounder how much pressure would be required.

[btroj]

can a solid copper round bar be pressed formed into a bullet shape? i wounder how much pressure would be required.

Ask Barnes

[.30-06 fan]

Ask Barnes

trade secret, i expect .....

[btroj]

Yep, I'm sure it is. Even then is it practical for most of us? I don't own a hydraulic press and I'm sure the dies aren't cheap.

[.30-06 fan]

the die is probably the most tricky part. for smaller bullets like .223 caliber, maybe a 20 ton jack would be enough.

[MBTcustom]

I thought Barnes lathe turned all their bullets.

Regardless, most of us are doing this because it's fun and cost effective. I've made solids on the lathe, and it's neither.

[btroj]

The X-bullet has a formed hollowpoint. The hollow may be lathe turned but the posting would occur following that.

Even if lathe turned it isn't practical for most and certainly isn't a "cast boolit" by any stretch.

[.30-06 fan]

Regardless, most of us are doing this because it's fun and cost effective.

very true. just thinking out aloud.

[.30-06 fan]

in the context of this thread, i thought opening the door of this idea was worth posting, even only if the if the door of the idea was closed very quickly after.

kind of thing ....

[btroj]

Nothing ventured nothing gained. Outside of the box thinking is what is needed to advance the art of shooting cast.