Single Action revolvers for self-defense?

[opos]

We have a bit different view of things...Where I live I can't get a CCW so any defense is in defense of our home and at home. We have a safe room and are modifying it even further...if someone gets into the house or is trying...the Wife and I (only 2 of us..both elderly) will try and lock ourselves into our safe room....it has one small window with inside bars and drop bars over the steel interior door. I figure we can at least get 911 called and then pick and choose our "stand"...the safe room is at a part of the house that any stray shots would have to penetrate walls on both sides of 4 rooms to get out of the house so our weapons (and there are several in the safe room) are a couple of 45 Colt Vaqueros with full house 240 grain loads..a couple of GP100's with 357 full house 125 grain and a 12 gauge shotgun with 00 buck. I'd much rather avoid any confrontation if possible. We do have other guns in the house for the last ditch if absolutley can't get to the safe room..they are gp100's and an SP101....have Gold Dot 38special +P's in them. They are well hidden and would be very hard to find except by us. We have no kids here and when the grandkids visit the "last ditch" guns go into the safe room and the safe room door is dead bolted so no prying eyes or playing there.

[topcat1957]

If you are good with that revolver then you are well served by it. A good hit with a 45LC should solve the problem.

Of course, if Obama succeeds in creating the nationwide riots many believe he wishes to see, I would personally rather have high capacity firearms, easy and quick to reload, at the ready; like an AR in the trunk that I could shoot my way to, hopefully.

But in 99.99+% of situations we are likely to see in present conditions, your revolver should be all you need.

[DRNurse1]

Groo here
I will throw my 1 1/2 cents in [ you will think it not worth 2]
The important thing in a shootout is to HIT FIRST,all other things are secondary.
What ever you need to do this is fair game .
The next thing is to NOT hit anyone else.
I have been an LE for over 30 years and pulled my gun 3 times, never fired it. [except on animals and that does not count]
I have been to Thunder Ranch , Lethel force, and the state schools shot IPSC and hunt with a handgun.
The "modern" form of shooting aka Doubletap,speed reloads,etc all came about due to the use of smaller guns. [32,38 9mm]
These guns had less slap [a Keith term for impact] than the 40+cal rounds and often required more than one shot to Impress the perp.
The smaller rounds will do similar damage to the insides of the target but do not effect more nerves ,more pain, more slap etc as the
majority of these nerves are in the skin.
This is where the larger bullets tend to work better.[ 40 seems to be the starting point]
Most single actions are of the larger boolit camp.
As to double action / single action debate, ALL shooting should be an excersize in hitting.
We learned and are relearning that the Only time DA should be used is at close range .out to 7 maybe 12 yds,
after which single action is a requirement.. [The Idea is to hit after all]
If you are schooled with a single action, the chances of getting a good hit at what ever range are equal to a DA or auto.
After the first hit , if you impress the target, a second may be applied IF necessary ,we shoot to stop after all.
We are now teaching people to "Empty the gun" ,"Shoot till there down" Aka dare I say it KILL the target.
That may or may be the correct thing to do.
As to the auto, the design was used in war for the following reasons
1 the gun has big parts,and can be made easy to take apart and clean.
2 The gun has no BC gap and does not spit lead. Important when used on horse back as horses do not like getting hit in the neck with
the blast and lead and become gun shy. Some of the first forces issued autos were cav.
In closing Whatever you have with you is better than what is at home. Whatever you can hit the fastest with is better than how many you can
shoot and find the biggest thing you can hit with ,then get the next bigger one and shoot,shoot,shoot.........

Groo: Excellent summary of 19 pages of posts. And I especially like the practice part.

I usually carry my 7 round single stack Officer model (kind of a large guy and it can be concealed and brought to bear easily by me) and am toying with a good 250 grain load to replace the 230 I currently use, just because 'more is better.'

So my only advantage is being able to reload faster than the SA crowd. But the disadvantage of FTF and FTE may be of great consequence in a lethal encounter... did I mention practice earlier?

My only experience with my ball loads was on a nuisance bruin in my garage and I probably did not need the second round (double tap and all that stuff I practice). Based on that limited and anecdotal experience, I would say SA in 45Colt pushing 250-270 grains at a reasonable terminal velocity and putting all six rounds on target in a stressful situation is likely to get you out alive. But this is just my extrapolated $0.02.

[Hatiwolf]

That would be absolutely absurd for anyone to claim a single action to be poor for self defence. The best choice for a self defence gun is a gun you can put every round into the target from 0 to 25 yards with every pull of the trigger. I would be better defended by a single shot .22 than 5 magazines trying to create a tornado with misses around my target. That being said, I can hit a 6" target effectively at 50 yards with my 686 (38/357), 610 (40/10mm) and if im feeling sturdy the SRH 480. I can do nothing of the sort at 25 yards with my ria 45, glock 40, walther P22 and sadly neither with my SBH 44 mag nor SBH 45 acp/colt. That would make all of them poor choices for self defense in my hands. If you can hit your target with your single action then you can successfully consider it a tool that can defend your life. The most successful person known in modern day for self defense where he came out on top has been a police officer shooting a 38 special ... go figure.

Oh and the 357 with 110 grain hps is what defends my house if the dog misses. Really hate the idea of practicing with those at all though. 1911 stays loaded and i really dont know why as its not going to be near as effective for me.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I've seen the 110 gr .357 HP fragment on many actual shootings. The fragmentation of the 110 gr HP in the .357 makes it a very poor choice for defense. Again, the single action revolver is often a large caliber and often loaded with lead.

If the 110 gr HP is driven at high velocity it's prone to fragment. Just take your 110 HP out somewhere and shoot it into various mediums; soil, water, wood. A local junk yard let me test different rounds in a couple of their cars. Ask anyone who was in law enforcement back in the 70's and 80's.

The jacketed boolits are often swagged lead pressed into a thin copper jacket. Once the expansion begins the swagged lead is exposed and it just fragments. Some of the ammo companies have responded to this fragmentation problem by bonded boolits. Gluing the swagged lead to the thin copper jacket. Ha. Once the lead is exposed to the medium and frags, bonding only frags the jacket with the lead.

If you insist on 110 gr boolits in your .357, use premium boolits and test them first. A pure copper 110 gr HP should work fine but I have never tested one and I don't know if they are made. Slow down your 110 gr HP's from magnum velocities is another good plan. Use lead is another good plan. Pure Linotype will frag too, it's too hard. Use a 10:1 or 20:1 or #2. The boolits should hang together but you'll have lead to clean out of your bore. Again, back away from top pressure loads in the 110 for defense. A heavier boolit is recommended for the .357. Many 110 gr boolits manufactured are constructed with the expectation they will be used for target shooting, these do not hang together.

[Gray Fox]

I would say that basing a self defense gun or load on what either will do at 25 yards is beyond the scope of a handgun in a defense situation. What will work at near contact distance to maybe 10 yards (how big is the biggest room in your home?) is more valid. If you're talking about defending yourself in your suburban or rural home against someone shooting at you from behind cover at 25 yards or more you need a rifle. Personally, both my wife and I have put thousands of rounds down range with our .45 Colt Rugers and am more than certain we could defend ourselves with them at realistic defensive ranges. At ranges longer than that I would not feel under gunned with our .45 Colt carbines, either.

As far as the 110 grain hollowpoints go, my wife and I were under contract about 5 years ago to train armed guards under contract to protect Federal offices, most of them Social Security offices. The required weapon was the S&W model 10 heavy barrel, 4" barrel loaded with Remington .38 +P 110 grain loads. The rationale of the Federal Protective Service under which the contracts were administered was that the lighter bullets had less danger of over penetration in crowded office environments. I have never read or heard of any actual use of that load in shootings so I cannot comment as to whether it would be valid. Of course, in that type of environment the bullet might be used on an under weight drug user, or a 350 pound slob, so results might vary. Those might be the targets you face in a home invasion, too. I think my 250 grain round nose flat point boolit at 800 fps from my Ruger would give me more of a comfort factor. Your mileage may vary. GF

[Brad Phillips]

I carry a vaquero in .44-40 sometimes. It sits in a Mernickle holster. I don't feel under dressed while wearing it. I also carry a G17

While the SA may not be for everyone, if you practice with it they will do the deed.

[Adam10mm]

Tagged for when I can read this thread on my desktop.

[Budda]

A lot of romance in this thread.

I love SA's

I CCW an auto.

[seaboltm]

I can put 6 .38 WC into 4 inches at 10 yds with a 6" Ruger BH as fast as I can cock the hammer and pull the trigger, which is pretty fast. Reloads are of course slow. My first choice for SD, no. But if all I had was my SA Ruger BH I wouldn't feel unarmed at all.

[meshugunner]

While the SA may not be for everyone, if you practice with it they will do the deed.

Indeed. Almost any gun is good enough if you practice enough.

I carry 5shot j frame or a 6 shot DAO revolver and rarely carry reloads. I just don't see it as likely that more will make a difference. My only aversion to SA revolvers is that the trigger is too light for high stress situations but really that's no worse than SA semi autos and, of course, it's purely a personal preference.

[Outpost75]

I haven't read all nine pages of this, but I did want to add that if you have a .45ACP cylinder in your Ruger, a cheap junk 1911 mag makes a great speed reloader. Just thumb them in as you turn the cylinder. Polish the chambers up with a ball hone from brownells or similar, and the empties will fall out until the gun gets filthed up.

GREAT TIP! I thought I was the only one to ever do this! The independent validation is appreciated.

While a single action might not be my first choice ( a 12-ga. riot gun is ) the first rule of gun fighting is to have a gun! And when the manure hits the propeller, you better be able to dance with the girl you brought!

Have enjoyed this thread.

[77ruger]

Originally posted by Outpost 75
"And when the manure hits the propeller, you better be able to dance with the girl you brought!"

Hahaha this one made my day

[9.3X62AL]

Originally posted by Outpost 75
"And when the manure hits the propeller, you better be able to dance with the girl you brought!"

Hahaha this one made my day

Mine too! This has been a VERY enjoyable thread. I am obliged away from carrying a single-action revolver in harm's way by agency regulations, but I use them frequently for hunting and recreational venues. Ruger Blackhawks are MONDO STRONG, and the Colts and their copies are fairly stalwart as well. Their classic simplicity appeals to me in no small way, and they shoot well for me in spite of their vestigial sighting gear. That they were part & parcel of a colorful period in our nation's history does nothing to detract from their appeal, also.

[ironhead7544]

GREAT TIP! I thought I was the only one to ever do this! The independent validation is appreciated.

While a single action might not be my first choice ( a 12-ga. riot gun is ) the first rule of gun fighting is to have a gun! And when the manure hits the propeller, you better be able to dance with the girl you brought!

Have enjoyed this thread.

Dessert Eagle magazines can also be used for the rimmed rounds.

[ironhead7544]

GREAT TIP! I thought I was the only one to ever do this! The independent validation is appreciated.

While a single action might not be my first choice ( a 12-ga. riot gun is ) the first rule of gun fighting is to have a gun! And when the manure hits the propeller, you better be able to dance with the girl you brought!

Have enjoyed this thread.

Dessert Eagle magazines can also be used for the rimmed rounds.

[sghart3578]

I can't imagine a person well versed in the use of his SAA not making a good stand.

[MtGun44]

It's not the arrow, it's the Indian.

Bill

[JHeath]

It's not the arrow, it's the Indian.

Bill

+1

The guy who carries an SAA because he doesn't give a damn, has the huge advantage of being a guy who doesn't give a damn.

Supposedly Wyatt Earp was asked how to win a gunfight, and answered "Take your time, fast."

Compare that with the Japanese sword master asked if it was difficult to kill a man in a duel: "It's not difficult at all. It is only difficult if you want to avoid being killed yourself."

[Savvy Jack]

I am pretty sure I have already replied in this thread but I am gonna do it again. Here in the great state of Georgia we can openly carry with a license. Usually I carry with a lose shirt called lazy concealed. Nevertheless I carry one of several Uberti SAA in various calibers. My daily carry is an Uberti Buckhorn chambered in 44 magnum but I carry a 44-40 cylinder with high velocity loads that are on the heals of the low end 44 magnum. I have used my Buckhorn several times against dogs and rattle snakes. I dislike killing anything but sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do. I practice weekly in my back yard at simple targets such as a snake's head and larger targets out to 75 feet as if I were in McDonalds. There are certainly better choices maybe but I like what I like and I use it well.......well enough.

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