If the SD's are not uniform its tough not to get vertical subsonic IMHO.I ran into the same problem shooting 30-06 plainbase with the 308403 Pope bullet.I ended up shooting almost every shot over my PACT to see what was happening.Not all super uiform low SD loads grouped(other things made them not shoot) but none that had a lot of velocity variation would group.
Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries
Just when I think I don't need anything else.... something like this comes along.
Very cool!
Yup, very cool indeed! I have been pondering on a similar idea for some time but in .44 mag. using boolits of around 400 grs.
I like the whole concept of the big heavy subsonic, or at least slow, boolit.
I've got too many things going on to pursue that one right now but it is interesting to read about this and see such nice groups. That makes for a very versatile range of boolits in .357 too.
How does the long throat handle lighter (more typical) boolit weights?
Longbow
I was thinking of getting a Handi rifle in 300 BLK, but for a single shot rifle, this makes much more sense. Even a 35 Remington...
I was on the fence for the Handi in 300AAC also.Then i thought why not shoot my Ruger #1A laods in a Handi 357.Its a better deal all arround and $150 cheaper.
I shot today and got three five shot groups that were all an even 3" @ 200 yards.The fourth group had 4 into 1.5" and the 5th was 5" high(ouch!!)When i went back to 100 yards i couldnt get it to group under 2" though....wierd? maybe i was shooting too fast.Load was the 250 RCBS with GC and 6.7g Bullseye.
(100 yard grouping figured out,the scope was adjusted after i went to 100 and was topped out and got squirrely.I put an optical boresighter in and adjusted it just to watch it go from moving to not moving to going down and left when i was just moving it left.I turned the elevation down half way and the scope acted normal.it was 10 clicks from topping out elevation wise.)
Last edited by HARRYMPOPE; 04-10-2014 at 12:07 AM.
Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries
Might have to try this with my 445 super mag Handi or my 460 S&W Ruger #1
Here are the 4 200 yard group's.it was pretty windy and it was surprising how well these bucked the wind.My variation is all verticle.I had flags at 50 and 100 and it was hard to pick a condition to shoot in.
Attachment 101901
Last edited by HARRYMPOPE; 04-09-2014 at 11:50 PM.
Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries
Very good!
What scope are you using to get you out to 200?
Turrets?
Ballistic reticle?
Or do you just aim for the moon?
LOL
The "problem" might be the weight of bullet you have to shoot for a good BC for longer ranges.I have tried to get my 44 Handi to shoot a 275 FN bulelts slow but so far no luck.it is 1-38 and I had thought it was 1-20.It does OK at 50 but falls apart at 100.Originally Posted by rockrat
If your 460 or 445 SM were somewhere near 1-20(and throated to seat long bullets) it would be a neat deal.I'd like to see how it goes,keep us posted.I was going to buy a Handi in 500S&W to try to duplicate the 50-70 but decided the investment in dies and such wasn't worth it.
Last edited by HARRYMPOPE; 04-09-2014 at 11:49 PM.
Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries
its a 1990's Japanese Weaver 2-10 Microtrack.I had a Simmons Philippine 4-12 but i took it off as the elevation adjustments were topped out to zero it at 100. It caused me vertical stringing and other POI issues that wasted ammo and time before i figured it out.
I am on at 100 and about 36" low at 200 @ 1150 fps and teh 250g bulelts.I hold the bottom duplex "point" and just catch the bottom of the paper.
I should use something with mil dots but the trajectory is so looping i doubt it would help.With the loads at 950 drop is more than 48"and i have to aim at a rock on the hill to catch paper.If the moon was out i would have aimed at it.
Last edited by HARRYMPOPE; 04-10-2014 at 12:07 AM.
Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries
I tried the RCBS 200 FN today. Loaded with 10g Blue-Dot @ 1300 it shot very well.50 yard groups was .75",100 yard group was 1.5" and the 200 yard group was a fantastic 2.25".(all 5 shot groups)I will have to load this again and see if it holds up.
George
Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries
George, will that rifle qualify for the Production or Hunter class in CBA? Have you been able to try the 358318 mold?
Great shooting!
Frank
It would but its not consistently accurate. The gun is hard to hold on the bags and keep from rolling. Today I shot some good and bad groups. If I don't pay real close attention to my hold I get groups over 2" at 100.if I hold it together its about 1.5" groups and once in awhile one close to 1".I shot 16 groups today from 50 to 200 yards. I didn't count group #1 as the first shot went 4" high and the next 4 dropped to where they should be into 1.25".The 15 groups averaged just under 2 MOA.The smallest was 1 MOA the biggest 3 MOA.
The Cramer 9c I shoot is about a copy of the 358318 and does pretty good.
George
here are the 100 yard groups
Last edited by HARRYMPOPE; 04-13-2014 at 06:41 PM.
Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries
200 yard groups. Bottom right is 5 from the RCBS 200 FN and 10g BLueDot.
Attachment 102225
Last edited by HARRYMPOPE; 04-13-2014 at 06:38 PM.
Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries
The other question that I have is, how's the recoil and does that effect the groups?
The reason I'm asking is, I have a Winchester LW in 357 Max and the 358318 mold. It has a light 28" barrel but I'm sure it must weigh at least a pound more than yours.
Frank
Recoil is practically nothing. Barrel time could be an issue but its more bag technique (I think?)
George
Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries
wlc,
what powder & primers are you using in your 357 Max? I just told a friend I would work up a 1050 fps load with a 230g boolit for his H&R 357 Max.
BB
Rem small pistol primers and American Select for the powder. I'm using 6.1gr and loading at 2.13" with Hunters Supply 246grGC boolits. I need to tweak it a bit more for accuracy, but it is subsonic. Don't know the exact fps as I don't own a chronograph right now. I got the load from a member on another forum that also has a Max. I've also loaded some 300 grainers with Lil gun, but have just started development of that load. Started with 10.5gr, but was supersonic. I think I'm going to like the 300gr boolits better than the 250's.
W231, unique, and 2400 are next on the list. I run stuff through quickload if the powder is supported by it to make sure the pressures, fill capacity, and fps all work before going into basically uncharted waters. I did load a few with Trail Boss, can't remember the load, but they were really quiet.
What twist is his barrel and is he shooting them through a suppressor? If suppressing, make double sure they are stable first if the twist is a slower one. My barrel was a special order with a 12 twist so as to stabilize the 300gr boolits. I "think" a 14 or 16 twist should stabilize a 250gr boolit. I would check one of the online stability calculators before loading many of them just to get an idea.
wlc,
I think he is okay for stability because he was shooting the 230g boolits with TB. He ran out of case capacity before he made 1,050 fps with TB so he wants to switch to Unique. I told him I was game to work on it for him.
Thanks for the American Select load data but I don't have that powder, actually I don't think I have ever seen that powder on the shelf. If I get a load with Unique that is accurate I will post about it.
thanks
BB
BB, try somewhere around 6 grains of unique. Might be supersonic, but will be close. If I had the boolit data (length, weight, his seating depth, OAL, barrel length, etc) I would offer to run it through quickload for you. IIRC I tried 6 or 6.2 under a 250gr and it was subsonic. Thought I was getting poor groups and switched powder. I found it was a vertical stringing problem with the rifle after I switched. I will revisit Unique if the Am Select doesn't give me what I want with the 250 grainer.
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