Need a 223 cast load

[Chunky Monkey]

Little brown truck should have my RCBS 2-Cavity Boolit Mold 22-055-SP 22 Caliber (225 Diameter) 55 Grain Semi-Point Gas mold here tomorrow. I also got some Hornady GC's for them. Gonna cast from WW and water cool then size to 224. Gonna be shot primarily for plinkin and the occasional coyote.

These will be shot from my Colt AR 2/ 20" HBAR that has 1/9 twist. I have a good bit of Lake City 5.56 brass and lots of Wolf small rifle magnum primers.

Just need a powder. I was looking at the Lyman Cast Bullet handbook and on pg 129 it has loads for a 54 gr cast boolit. I notice that the powders listed are primarily pistol/fast burning) powders, i.e., Unique, 748, Red and Green dot, IMR 7625-4759. The only one on that list that I have on hand is Unique. I will be loading these on my Lee Classic Cast Turret so I am kinda leaning towards getting 4 or 8lbs of 748 as I have heard good things about it and it would meter well. If it doesn't work out I could always use it for 45 acp.

I do have a few lbs of H335 and Ramshot Tac for loading Hornady 55 gr full metal jackets.

You gents have any thoughts on this that you would like to share with the Monkey?

I tried to search for some loads but really only found this thread started by Bullshp Jr.

[felix]

748 is a high performance powder. Not for cast and most especially not for the acp with any projectile. Fine for condoms in the 223. For 223 boolits, pick N110, N120, 2400, RL7, or any 4227. You will find a load fairly quickly with these, and if you cannot, there is a problem somewhere not with the powder speed. Any culprit would be boolit diameter and/or primer choice. ... felix

[Chunky Monkey]

748 is a high performance powder. Not for cast and most especially not for the acp with any projectile. Fine for condoms in the 223. For 223 boolits, pick N110, N120, 2400, RL7, or any 4227. You will find a load fairly quickly with these, and if you cannot, there is a problem somewhere not with the powder speed. Any culprit would be boolit diameter and/or primer choice. ... felix

Thanks for the correction Felix, I was thinkin 231. So basically the loads in the Cast Bullet Handbook shouldn't be used?

[ddeaton]

I have a bunch of H335 also and would like to use this for 223 and 308. I am interested in this thread also

[felix]

H335 is a faster version of 748, and that's all. Because it is faster, and having the same approximate formulation, it is also easier to ignite. But still should not be used in low pressure loads because of its heritage (formulation). Use that for your 308 condom loads as well as 748. Go with the powders I suggested for best results with boolits out of the shoot (chute). ... felix

[Chunky Monkey]

Felix where would be a good place to look up a starting load?

On the Vihtavuori website they do have loads for 223 using N120, obviously none are for lead boolits. I know there's no set formula but generally how much should a person back off of to convert a load for FMJ to lead? For example, a charge of 18.7 gr of N120 over a small rifle primer under a 55 gr FMJ? 10% back off for any change in component. So should someone back off 15% or more. Having trouble finding anything for N110, RL7, 2400, or any 4227.

Next problem will be finding a local shop that has 1lb of which ever powder I decide on. Luckily I have a 4 or 5 good ones around here.

[Larry Gibson]

I have a bunch of H335 also and would like to use this for 223 and 308. I am interested in this thread also

For M193 duplication in .223 try 26 gr under a 52-55 gr bullet. (Note: many soft skinned varmint bullets [SX/Blitx type] do not fair well in the 7-9" twists). For an M80 duplication load try 42.5 gr under 145-155 gr bullets.

Cases are milsurp and primers are WSR/WLR or magnum type. Bullets are crimped (those with canelures) with Lee factory Crimp dies.

As always; work up to those loads in your rifle.

As to cast bullets; H335 and 748 are not good powders for this use. The faster powders in Lyman's Handbook are ok but I've found H4895 (17-19 gr with 55-60 gr cast bullets) to work very well.

Larry Gibson

[garandsrus]

Monkey,

Don't forget to flair the case mouths before seating the boolits...

John

[JeffinNZ]

For reference I shoot a Lyman 225462 (61gr) in my Rem 700 .223 over 6.0gr Green Dot for 1700fps and 23gr W748 for 2600fps. GDot load is air cooled w/w; W748 load is oven heat treated w/w. I size to .2255-.226. Accuracy for the GDot load is 1/2 - 3/4 inch at 50m. W748 load produces 1.5-2.0 MOA at 100m.

[Chunky Monkey]

Monkey,

Don't forget to flair the case mouths before seating the boolits...

John

Thanks John, I did think of that and ordered a Lee universal case expanding die.

Just need to figure out a powder and load to start up.

[medicstimpy]

I think you will find that most of the .223 loads out there in manuals are for bolt action guns. I tried a couple of them and they would not cycle the action on an AR. So I built my own load.

I can't speak for your RCBS boolit but for the Lyman 225646 I use 21gr of H4895, Hornady GC's (until my Freechex comes) and Lars's Carnuba Red lubed in both the rear bands and the bands in the nose.

Since there is so much lube on these boolits, there is no leading at all and have no lead deposits in the gas system. Since your RCBS is a regular design with the lube bands, I would definately check your barrel after shooting and closely inspect your gas system when you get it home to see. If there is nothing, then it should be safe to shoot these out of your AR.

[Lead melter]

As to cast bullets; H335 and 748 are not good powders for this use. The faster powders in Lyman's Handbook are ok but I've found H4895 (17-19 gr with 55-60 gr cast bullets) to work very well.

Larry Gibson

I'll second that statement, especially for reduced loads. 7.62X54R and 30-30 Winchesters that I have played with using this powder had some REALLY scary hangfires and what might be termed "detonations" while at the lower powder charges while using cast. Once the load density gets up to 80% or so things start to act right. Be very careful with this sort of thing. I learned my lesson quickly.

[Calamity Jake]

In my RRA LAR15 24in 1 in 12 I use Acccurate arms 2015 at 17.5 grains with the same boolet you are going to use cast in a mix of 50/50 WW/Lino and oven heat treated.
The 17.5 grains cycles the action very well and shoot about 1.5 to 1.75 inches @ 100
The 4895 load above is also a good one, my AR seems to like 2015 a little better.
And as has been said before, forget the 335 and 748 for cast.

[Chunky Monkey]

Thanks guys!! I'm starting to get an idea of what I need to pick up.

Keep the info coming as I will wait to get my powder till I can get a few boolits cast and sized!

Also we got a new toaster oven for Xmas so I get the old one for the heat treating boolits. I'll have to do some searches as I have seen info on that before.

[JIMinPHX]

You might find some related info here -

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=26232

Or here -

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=3345

[Chunky Monkey]

In my RRA LAR15 24in 1 in 12 I use Acccurate arms 2015 at 17.5 grains with the same boolet you are going to use cast in a mix of 50/50 WW/Lino and oven heat treated.
The 17.5 grains cycles the action very well and shoot about 1.5 to 1.75 inches @ 100
The 4895 load above is also a good one, my AR seems to like 2015 a little better.
And as has been said before, forget the 335 and 748 for cast.

What primers and lube you using? I have Lars Carnuba Red on hand and plan to use that.

[felix]

You who are newbees, 335 and 748 will easily give factory loads in the 30-30 thru 35 remington with boolits, and in fact are preferred powders. ... felix

[leadhead 500]

I shot the Lyman 225415 cast from #2 alloy for years and found 2 great loads for it,
21 grains of IMR 4895
Win. SR primer
2.060" OAL

11 grains of 2400
Win.SR primer
2.060"

The 2400 load was the best load that I have seen for a cast boolit from a 223.

[Chunky Monkey]

I cast up about a 100 or so last night and another 100 or so tonight. Really like that RCBS mold.





Was going down to the garden today to drop off the Xmas tree. So I sized, checked, and lubed 9 this morning. Loaded them 3 each over 18, 18.5, and 19 grains of H4895 with Wolf SRM primers. 19 grains wasn't too bad I'll try that load again. Wanted to see if they would fire, feed, extract. They all did but were a little weak. I set a beer can at about 25 yards and there was 4 or 5 holes in it when I was done.

Not worried about accuracy right now. I will put together a few more later and see if I get any leading.

Thanks to all for your help so far!!

[medicstimpy]

I'd keep using your Lars's Red Carnuba due to the velocities involved. Since you have to load them high to get the AR to cycle, the boolits will be up there in velocity.

I've used NRA lube and Lyman Orange in bolts and levers and handguns in various calibers but never in the AR. Since trying the Red Carnuba, I'm sold on it now and only use that for all my calibers.

Glad to hear your test witl 19gr worked well for you. Now all you have to do is put up a paper target and fine tune your load for accuracy.