Reloading the 50 Action Express

[Bullwolf]

So I am thinking about reloading some 50AE for an old Automag V.




I would like to cast for this too. Does anyone have any favorite Boolit mold suggestions?

I have only seen a little data for the cartridge, and most of it has been for jacketed ammo. I am leaning towards IMR 4227 as my powder choice, mostly to be gentle to the gun. Win 296 and H110 are getting honorable mention for second choice though.

I am looking for some more information, like pet loads, favorite molds, and especially what Boolit weights do others use, or prefer in this cartridge.

I was thinking of starting off around 300-325 grains, but I see quite a few heavier Boolit weight loadings for the 50 AE.

I do not have a Desert Eagle in this caliber, just my old Automag V and it's not really replaceable, since it is no longer made. I am not looking for maximum ballistic potential, but I don't necessarily need to download it either.

I don't plan on handgun hunting with it. I use 44 Magnum for that sort of thing.

So for me, it's more of a fun plinker, so I don't need massive penetration, or expansion from a cast Boolit in this caliber. Just some paper punching, and hopefully economical reloads, that also will not batter the gun.

I have not re-loaded for the 50AE before. So I am approaching it like an over sized 44 Magnum cartridge, or something along those lines.

Some 50AE load data that I had on hand.

----------------------
From the 49th edition Lyman Reloading Handbook
Firearm used 50AE Desert Eagle

300 grain Hornady XTP
Powder IMR 4227
Start - 28.8 grains 1252fps
Max - 32.0 grains 1386fps

325 grain Speer JHP
Powder IMR 4227
Start - 29.5 grains 1223fps
Max - 31.0 grains 1323fps

300 grain Hornady XTP
Powder H110
Start - 29.7 grains 1284fps
Max - 33.0 grains 1398fps

325 grain Speer JHP
Powder H110
Start - 31.2 grains 1300fps
Max - 32.5 grains 1372fps
----------------------
From Dean A. Grennell's The ABC's of reloading (5th edition)
50 AE Speer supplemental data
Firearm used 50AE Desert Eagle

325 grain Speer JHP
Powder IMR 4227
Start - 29.5 grains 1224fps
Max - 31.1 grains 1289fps

325 grain Speer JHP
Powder H110
Start - 29.4 grains 1298fps
Max - 32.6 grains 1437fps
---------------------
From Lyman's 4th edition Cast Bullet Handbook
Firearm used AMT Automag V 50AE

Powder IMR 4227
RCBS cast lead 340grain SWC
Start - 24.5 grains 1034fps
Max - 27.8 grains 1239fps

Powder H110
RCBS cast lead 340grain SWC
Start - 23.5 grains 1039fps
Max - 27.0 grains 1235fps
----------------------

So far the only mold suggestion I have is the RCBS#50-340-SWC using a 10 to 1 alloy, and frankly it seems a bit on the heavy side to me. I have seen even heavier Boolit weights too, mostly intended for use in the 500 S&W though.

I am sort of thinking that a 300 grain Boolit would be more pleasant to shoot, and easier on the gun, or should I be leaning more towards a heavier and slower traveling Boolit?

Any more information regarding reloading the 50 Action Express will definitely be appreciated.



- Bullwolf

[troy_mclure]

hodgdon h4227 will work as well.

a guy i shoot with loads for his DE in .50ae. its a hunting gun as well.

he does all kinds of crazy stuff, like using muzzleloader sabots to shoot .429 180gr bullets fast. and lead .500 round balls.

he tried powerbelt muzzleloader bullets, but the "belt" badly fouled his barrel.

he also uses a hollow based minie ball, not too sure of weight tho.

he does not cast, so it is all commercial cast stuff. if i see him this week ill get some info for you.

[onondaga]

Your load list mentions the RCBS 50-340-SWC. I have this mold and use it in .500S&W Mag. Mine cast much heavier than 340 with that RCBS mold. I cast them with Wheel Weight: Lino at 7:3 and they test 14 BHN. They drop at .504" diameter and 365 grains average.

So if you are eliminating the heavier ones just because they are heavy, that might be one to eliminate from the start.

I will say the bullet gives superb accuracy in .500 Hand-Rifle, 22 in. barrel, with loads using WC852 and BPI Original Filler at around 1600 fps. That particular filler acts as a quasi gas check and does wonders for accuracy with plain based boolits in the .500.

It does get your attention on recoil and my grandson will not shoot them with that boolit.

If you are looking for a light boolit I also shoot the Lee R.E.A.L. 50 cal. ML bullet in 250 grain weight and size that boolit to .501" It is also available in a 320 grain weight.


The 250 unsized/sized. The 250 casts right at 250 grains with my alloy.



My load groups less than 1"At 50 yd. for my grandson and I and is a mild shooter due to the low boolit weight.


Gary

[onondaga]

Here is some links to load data for the 500 AE:

http://www.reloadersnest.com/frontpa...p?CaliberID=21

and:

http://www.handloads.org/loaddata/de...Powder&Source=

Cast boolits can be loaded with data from the same weight J bullet or the next heavier J bullet data. Safety will be fine but accuracy is usually better worked up starting from about 5% less than minimum loads.


Gary

[Bullwolf]

Thanks for the information guys.


I ordered 50 pieces of the 325grain Hunters Supply Hard Cast 50 caliber (.501 diameter) boolits from Midway. I wanted to get the feel for things before I go out and buy a mold, and a Lee .501 sizing die just for this caliber.

Most of the J-word data that I have on hand seems to be optimized for velocities in the 1300-1400 fps range.

The cast data, is in the 1050fps(start) to 1250fps(max) range.

The 50AE data that I can find seems to deal with maximum loads, and maximum velocities. Often also using a 50AE Desert Eagle as a test pistol, and making sure that it will cycle with it's gas port system.

I know a lot of powders have sub par performance when downloaded, and don't burn very clean. In some cases, certain powders should not be used below a certain minimum with reduced loads - like H110/W296

Because the cast loads are looking so reduced to me...(and I don't mind that) What I am wondering is what is the best powder choice for reduced loads (around 1050 FPS) for the 50AE?

I have some IMR 4227 on hand, and I was leaning towards using it, but I have heard it can act funny in a hot barrel.

I have not used H4227, but it is always an option if it is a better selection.

I have also heard that lighter loadings of 2400 tend to leave a lot of un-burnt powder in the barrel.

I don't mind if it is a bit blasty. Since the barrel is ported, it's already pretty loud and blasty, and it doesn't really bother me as long as I am wearing hearing protection. I would feel really bad shooting the thing at a public range though.

I have used other Accurate Arms powders before in smaller calibers, but I have not used Accurate Arms #9.
When the 40 S&W first came out, and data for it was in short supply (other than 41AE load data) I received some load data info from Accurate Arms, right over the telephone. They were most pleasant to speak with. In this case though, I am looking more for a powder selection, than loading data.

Maybe I should I just break out the can of Trail Boss, and plan on manually cycling the action by hand.

Heck, I am half tempted to work up a safe load that would still cycle the slide based on the old standby of 10 grains of Unique. It works in so many other applications after all. That's a whole different project though.

I have only used IMR 4227, and H110/296, in 44 Magnum. I have had no experience at all with lighter loadings, using slow burning powders.

If I was going to work up a warm load using J-word bullets for the Desert Eagle, I would just use H110/W296.

So here are the standard powder choices that I do have load data for:

IMR 4227
Hodgdon 4227
Accurate Arms #9
Accurate Arms 1680
Alliant 2400
Hodgdon H110 / Winchester 296

Which powder would y'all recommend for 50AE as the best choice, using a lightly loaded (around 1050 FPS) non GC'd 325 grain Hunters Supply Cast Bullet in a 6 1/2 inch Magna ported barrel.


- Bullwolf

[onondaga]

I used the reduced load calculator at:
http://www.handloads.com/calc/reduced.asp

and based the calculation on the AE 50 load from Hodgdon
325gr JHP 32.5 gr H110 1,431 fps 1.575" CCI 350 Hodgdon

so, by the math with the calculator, 22.1 grains H110 should yield~1050 fps with your 325 gr cast bullet.

This is a low pressure load and I am not qualified to say that ignition would be perfect or not.

I have made low pressure loads in .500 S&W and H110 with cast PB 250 gr boolits with good results using BPI Original filler to obtain 105% compressed loads and have had clean burn with no ignition problems.

29.3 grains is the recommended minimum load with a 325 gr jacketed bullet from Hodgdon for the AE. When you go below minimum recommended charges, you are in the area of "You are on your own." When I go below minimum recommended charges, I use BPI filler to achieve 105% compressed loads to enhance ignition with H110.

Try the calculator with powders you have on the loads listed at:
http://www.handloads.org/loaddata/de...Powder&Source=

Beware that minimum recommended charges from powder manufacturers are given for specific reasons related to the powder characteristics.

The Hodgdon AE load:
325gr JHP 30.8 gr H4227 1,294 fps 1.575" CCI 350 Hodgdon
Suggested starting load: 27.7 gr
When reduced with the calculator does not put you below the minimum recommended charge from Hodgdon of 27.7 grains for the 325 gr bullet and reduces to 29.9 grains H4227~1050 fps.


Gary

[Bullwolf]

Thanks Gary, the reduced load calculator is an excellent tool. I appreciate you posting the link to it.

That is just the sort of thing that I was looking for.

I will fiddle around with it some using a few different powders.

- Bullwolf

[altheating]

Bullwolf
You need a set of dies for that 50 cal? I have a 3 die RCBS set that I have been trying to sell. Was getting ready to put them on Ebay. PM me if interested.

[Bullwolf]

Bullwolf
You need a set of dies for that 50 cal? I have a 3 die RCBS set that I have been trying to sell. Was getting ready to put them on Ebay. PM me if interested.

Blah. I already ordered a set of the Lee dies from Midway.

Personally, I would have preferred the RCBS dies just because I am used to them. It was hard to argue with the price tag on the Lee set though.

Had I known earlier, I would have gladly taken you up on that offer.

Thank you for asking, before putting them up on Evil bay.


- Bullwolf

[blackpowder man]

Keep us informed of progress. I have an encore pistol barrel in .50 AE and have been contemplating what to load. I have the Lee REAL mold and could size .530 roundballs down. I think you might have something with Unique. I had planned on trying that. IMR SR4759 might be a good one. I also think your 2400 idea might be good for warmer loads.
Altheating I would be interested in those dies for the right price.

[Dark Helmet]

I'd stick with 2400, should load nicely for the bullets/ velocities you're looking at.

[altheating]

Blackpowderman

PM sent

[Bullwolf]

Thanks for the Alliant 2400 suggestion folks. I decided to go with it as my powder of choice for the 50AE.

I found some other data on the AMT forum regarding a Blue Dot load worked up specifically for an Automag V for a light plinking load.

I don't like to post information that I have personally not verified for a load like this, but I still think it was educational. It kept me from experimenting with lighter loads without using published data as well.

I am copying this for informational purposes only. I would strongly advise others not to try to duplicate this load.

Cut and pasted from a post by Stainless Magnum on June 2008 over at the AMT Gun Forums

<snip>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This load was not hot at all. It behaved nicely. The charge can probably go up a few grains and deliver 1100+ f/ps. I would not submit my gun to that, except perhaps as a one time hunting round or something, but doubtful in any case.

I did a chronograph test series of the .50AE (using an Automag V as a test pistol) and accidentally discovered the following:

15.5gr. Blue Dot under 350gr. XTP gave 1020 f/ps
15.1gr. Blue Dot under 350gr. XTP gave 975 f/ps
14.7gr. Blue Dot under 350gr. XTP gave 910 f/ps
14.5gr. Blue Dot under 350gr. XTP gave 1425 f/ps!!!!

The chronograph was checked for consistency, but recoil/blast was conformational anyways. 5 rounds gave this result consistently. Pulling the remainder, and reloading back up .5 grain dropped the velocity back down. I no longer go below 15.1 grains on this bullet. All the loads above, except for the under load, were mild to shoot (relatively speaking).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<snip>

I have also seen the 15.1 grains of Blue Dot, behind a 350gr. Hornady XTP load posted in one other place online - Handloads.com. Also for the Automag V)

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/my...l=hannibaldave

I am not knocking this person at all for the load, I am actually impressed that it is posted and I found it quite educational. It also helped prevent me from experimenting with lighter loads of either Blue Dot, or W296/H110 and helped cement my decision to go with 2400 for this cartridge.

Not knowing if it was old Hercules Blue Dot, or new Alliant Blue Dot, and not knowing the individual personally who worked up this load, or his components (primer, case, lot of powder) I was very apprehensive about trying the load out. I would not feel comfortable reducing the load, and working it up myself with that nasty 1 grain of powder velocity spike that was encountered.

And to add to this, I could find no published book data at all that uses Blue Dot in the 50AE. Alliant has also pulled some of the older Blue Dot data from their line up because of pressure issues, so I decided not to mess around at all with this load, especially without my chronograph.

Don't get me wrong, I love Blue Dot as a powder, and I use it quite a bit in heavy 12 gauge loads, and 40 S&W. I just will not be using it in ANY reduced loads. It seems like 2400 will be a more flexible replacement for Blue dot, to use in my lighter loads.

I settled on a starting load of 20 grains of 2400 behind a 325 grain Hunters Supply Hard Cast 50 caliber (.501 diameter) boolit for me in 50AE.

Data from the Lyman's Reloader's Handbook (49th edition) using a 325 grain Speer JHP #4495.
Powder: 22.0 grains of Alliant 2400 (starting load)
Bullet: 325 grain JHP = 1037 FPS out of a 6inch Desert Eagle in 50AE.

Data from the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook (4th edition) using a RCBS #50-340-SWC.
Powder 20.0grains of Alliant 2400 (starting load)
Bullet: 340 grain cast lead SWC =1027 FPS from a 6 1/2 inch Automag V in 50AE.



Thanks everyone for the information, tips, links, and the interest.



- Bullwolf

[Bullwolf]

I ran some of my hand loads through the Automag this weekend.

I fired 20 rounds of cast lead 325 grain boolits through the gun,
and
another 20 rounds that I loaded up, using 300 grain plated flat nose J-word bullets.

I worked my way up slowly from 20 grains, to 21.5 of Alliant 2400.

21.5 grains of A2400 will cycle the action just fine. 20-21 grains is a bit on the light side. I had a couple of failures to eject, and chamber the next round, when under 21.5 grains.

They were both remarkably pleasant loads, with very light felt recoil when shot through the Automag V. It was very mild to shoot, and I suspect just barely subsonic.

I hope to run this load across a chronograph, so I can put some solid numbers down on paper for it.

My old chronograph had a little accident. A work buddy who couldn't shoot quite as well as he thought he could, accidentally managed to shoot the display. Another Chrony is in my immediate future. Loading without one, feels like I am driving blind.

I seriously doubt this load would cycle a Desert Eagle's gas system, and it's more of a plinking load than a hunting load. It was just perfect at what it was intended to be used for - light target practice ammo.


If you are looking for a very light .50AE load for an old AMT, or maybe a Thomson Contender 21.5 grains of A2400 just might fit the bill for you.


- Bullwolf

[Bullwolf]

A couple of updates on my attempts at hand loading the 50 Action Express.

I tried to get some load data, for a starting load of Unique from Alliant.

My overall experience with Alliant Powder Company was less than satisfactory.

Alliant had no data available for .50AE in the online reloaders guide, so I tried calling, and emailing them.

I quite was disappointed that Alliant did not, or could not provide any load data of their own.

Alliant copied and sent me an inaccurate, and what I would consider unsafe piece of load data from a suspect Speer reloading manual listing a 28-29 grain start/max load for 2400!

The maximum load, depending on who you believe is somewhere closer to 23-24 grains of 2400. I have quite a few older, and newer Speer manuals. They are not my favorite source for load data. Other than that one edition that Alliant was using, the others all list 23-24 grains start/max load for 2400, as does the Lyman 49th Reloading Handbook.

If I ever needed a better example of why one should check all load data 2-3 times with different reference material, this was it. I really expected a lot better from the powder manufacturer.

When I asked Alliant (again) about Unique data, they were less than helpful, since they had no books on hand with any Unique load data published.

I sort of expected Alliant to have access to an in house program similar to quick load, or something along those lines. Having them cut and paste from an older (and what I would consider erroneous, almost to the point being negligent) Speer manual was really disappointing to me.

I believe I will try working up a Unique load starting around 7 to 8.5 grains behind a 300 grain bullet for the .50AE, slowly and using a chronograph, to see what I can come up with.

Anyhow, I have been testing a few different powders in .50AE, both slower and faster burning.

I tried a starting load of 21.8 grains of Accurate Arms #9. It performed much like the 21.5 grain load of Alliant 2400 did.

Both loads would function, and cycle the gun, but they were still burning while the slide was cycling, and the brass was being ejected.

It's easier to show an example of this, than it is to explain. I have a picture of it, captured using an I phone.


Can I light that cigarette for you?

Seriously though, retrieved cartridge brass would consistently show soot streaking only on the top of the brass, that easily wipes off.

Wiping the soot off reveals blue burn discolorations on the top of the brass, quite similar to what you would see while annealing brass. I should have taken a picture of this, but I did't. The discoloration resembled annealing brass with a torch, but not spinning the brass.

The blue discoloration would not come off even after a citric acid bath, but it does eventually tumble off.

The spent brass was barely expanded to fit (and seal) the size of the chamber. This was really obvious when re-sizing the brass. It was almost as if the brass had not been fired, other than soot streaking and heat discoloration on top.

A moderate load of W296 or H110 looks something like this coming out of the magna porting at the front of the barrel.



Unfortunately both Accurate Arms #9 and Alliant 2400 powders were still burning while the action of the gun was opening. I think that was because the loads were tailored for a closed action gun like a revolver, a Thompson Contender, or a Desert Eagle with it's rotating locking lugs, and gas port ejection system.

Since the Automag V is a direct blow back, recoil operated gun, I had different results using it. I find the lack of a gas port to be more cast boolit friendly though.

It was possible that if I bumped up the charge a bit more when using 2400 or AA#9 that things might have worked better, but I did not really want to try this out using the Automag V Pistol as a test bed. I was sort of looking for a milder target .50AE load for the Automag V to shoot anyways.

The hands down winning load for the Automag V so far has been 26.5 grains of IMR 4227.

The IMR 4227 load seals the brass to the chamber, with no soot streaking or heat/flame discoloration.
(and with no flames coming out of the ejection port)
It's an easy, accurate, and clean load to shoot. The IMR 4227 load also consistently cycles the slide on the Automag V.

When the new chronograph arrives, I plan on running the IMR 4227 load across the screens, and shelving the other 2 powder selections for the gun.


- Bullwolf

[Gswain]

With the gas blowback you are getting with the brass, it looks like too much "gentle push" and not enough of a pressure spike to expand the brass to the chamber walls. Either step up your charge of the slower powders so you get good brass expansion to chamber walls and it seals, or go to a faster powder. Being that you said you don't want to beat the snot out of the gun, I'd recommend AA # 7. It meters like a dream but is a bit faster.

[Bullwolf]

With the gas blowback you are getting with the brass, it looks like too much "gentle push" and not enough of a pressure spike to expand the brass to the chamber walls. Either step up your charge of the slower powders so you get good brass expansion to chamber walls and it seals, or go to a faster powder. Being that you said you don't want to beat the snot out of the gun, I'd recommend AA # 7. It meters like a dream but is a bit faster.

Thank you for the AA #7 tip Gswain.

The IMR 4227 load at 26.5 grains sealed up just fine, for what it's worth.

I am not sure if it was the powders burn rate, or the amount of the charge, but it sure worked nice.

In a perfect world, I would just be working my way up from start charges to light weight moderate loads using a chronograph. I was sort of flying blind though here without one after "the chronograph accident".

A new chronograph has arrived from Midway, so now I am back on the right track.

Since I still have quite a bit of IMR 4227 on hand, and it also burned so clean, I might just stick with that powder for my plinking 50AE load with the Automag V.

I don't generally use a lot of Accurate Arms powders, but I have used AA #2 in 9mm, 45ACP, and 40S&W in the past.

I picked up a pound of AA #9 for my first round of 50AE testing , but only because I had some book loads (Lyman cast handbook 4th edition, and Lyman 49th) for it already.

The only other load data that I had from Accurate Arms, was from a couple of older AA powder pamphlets that I had hung onto, that showed some 50AE data in them. They also only had data for AA #9 listed, so that was what I started out with.

I had talked to Accurate Arms on the phone, once in the early 1990's. They were quite helpful. I feel confident that they would at least steer me in the direction of a starting charge, if asked.

The next time I purchase more Accurate Arms powder, I will try to give AA #7 a try.



- Bullwolf

[Bullwolf]

I ran a few mags of .50 Action Express across the chronograph today, using the Automag V.

The load was a 300 grain Hornady XTP HP bullet this time, behind 26.5 grains of IMR4227, using Hornady Brass, and a CCI #350 Large Pistol Magnum Primer.

I have quite a few 300 grain XTP HP's on hand.

I pulled a fair amount of 300 grain Hornady XTP's from factory 50 AE ammo in the first place, to obtain what little 50 Action Express brass that I do have. I hate to let it go to waste after all.

Sadly, 50 AE brass has been on back order for a while now from Midway USA.

I used a recent lot of IMR4227
(Manufactured in Australia, packaged in USA, Hodgdon owned IMR blue label 4227)

A quick sampling showed:

FPS
---------
1040
1012
994
975
1016
997
977
985
1010
983
1018
1014
998
976
1023
978
---------
999.75 Feet Per Second average.

It's a nice gentle low pressure load, that happens to be subsonic.

The load always cycles the slide on the .50 AE Automag V, and it is quite pleasant to shoot as well.

It seemed reasonably accurate, at the end of the pistol range anyways. I need to stretch out the range a bit more, and see just how accurate it really is.

Best of all, the load was easy on the gun, and the shooter.

I have found the 50 AE to be quite a fun cartridge to load and shoot. Ammo can be somewhat hard to find though, and a bit expensive too. I would hate to have to pay for factory ammo constantly. At $50 for a box of 20, it would add up pretty quick if you weren't reloading it.

I think I will enjoy casting for it as well, and I am leaning towards picking up a .501 diameter mold.

I wish I had access to QuickLoad for some 50 AE starting data, using Unique with a 300 grain projectile.

My guesstimate is that somewhere between 7.5 to 10 grains of Unique would do close to the same thing for me in 50 AE, that 26.5 grains of IMR4227 is doing now.


- Bullwolf

[Link23]

i know with my .50 DE. i DONT shoot cast through it but i have to load 1 grain over max to get it to function properly, but then again MOST of the 50AE info is for the Automag pistols, nothing would work other than 1 grain over max USE AT OWN RISK!! it was the only thing that would cycle my gun properly!
Link23

[djml66]

Mr Bullwolf:

"If you are looking for a very light .50AE load for an old AMT, or maybe a Thomson Contender 21.5 grains of A2400 just might fit the bill for you."

I realize this info was not specifically for the DE.

I tried up to 24 gr of 2400 under a Speer 325gr "j-word boolit" and a 335gr plated soft lead from Ranier with negative results in operating the action. This was with a CCI 300 standard primer. Using Speer RM14 data (26-28gr, 2400), the action operated OK but the velocities on a "Crony" were significantly more than the 1259 to 1359 in RM14. I measured just under 1500fps with the 28gr. This is more than this old man can handle, also!

Then I discovered the Lyman 49th. For the Speer 325 UCHP, they specify A2400, 22gr start to 24gr max, with the velocities of 1037 to 1202. Significantly, they specify a CCI 350 magnum primer. I have made up a blanket of splits but haven't been able to get to the outdoor range because of health issues. Has anyone on this forum used that data with the CCI 350 primer and can verify it? It sounds ideal for me if it will operate the DE action reliably.

Excuse me for breaking in to your interesting session.

Dave