Which Muzzleloader .32 or .36

[mooman76]

I make my own starters. They are very easy to make and gives your set up more personality. Just get a big wooden knob from a craft or hardware store. A piece of hardwood dowel rod that fit the barrel or if you buy a ramrod that needs to be cut down, you can use a piece of it. You glue it into the wooden knob and I take a brass shell that will fit your barrel and glue it to the other end of the dowel. It keeps it from splintering on the end. You may have to recess the dowel abit to fit it on and a good strong glue like epoxy is needed so it won't come off. I believe for the 32 being so small I used .32 pistol brass or maybe even a 25 but I remember grinding the rim off a little so it would fit. I also used a ball shaped grinder it concave the brass a little to help keep from flattening the lead ball out when starting. If you want the short starter(probubly not needed for the 32 or 36) you can glue another piece of shell brass into the side of the knob to get your short start.

[DIRT Farmer]

I am of the tight ball tight patch= small groups. The only rifles I load under size i are 50 and over. In the 32 I load a 319 ball and matress ticking that mikes about 18 tho and 20 to 25 grns of fffg, in the 36 I load a 36 ball with the same ticking and 25 to thirty grains of fffg. You will need a short starter. Also with the small bores cutting the patch at the muzzle seems to help groups, so a ball seat on the short starter will give you a constant patch size. Just get a wooden ball at a craft shop, or as I use a piece of deer antler, put a piece of ramrod 6 inches in one hole and a piece of the rod that is in an outside faucet(check with a plumber) in another hole. let it stick out appx. i/4 inch. Life is eisier with out broken ram rods. Also wooden ram rods need to be soaked in oil I use deisel fuel to make them more flexable/ less brittle.

[DCP]

TRADITIONS
RECOMMENDED LOADS


.32 cal
.310 lead ball
.012-.015 patch
Total .324-.330

Powder
min10 3F
max 25 3F

DIRT Farmer is .319 plus .018 patch

.036 plus .319 for
Total of .355

Is this normal ?

I am of the tight ball tight patch= small groups. The only rifles I load under size i are 50 and over. In the 32 I load a 319 ball and matress ticking that mikes about 18 tho and 20 to 25 grns of fffg, in the 36 I load a 36 ball with the same ticking and 25 to thirty grains of fffg. You will need a short starter. Also with the small bores cutting the patch at the muzzle seems to help groups, so a ball seat on the short starter will give you a constant patch size. Just get a wooden ball at a craft shop, or as I use a piece of deer antler, put a piece of ramrod 6 inches in one hole and a piece of the rod that is in an outside faucet(check with a plumber) in another hole. let it stick out appx. i/4 inch. Life is eisier with out broken ram rods. Also wooden ram rods need to be soaked in oil I use deisel fuel to make them more flexable/ less brittle.

[shdwlkr]

I don't use the .319 rb but do use a .315 rb and .018 pillow ticking which means I am in theory stuffing .351 of mass into my .32 caliber TC cherokee.
I use the same patching material in my .36 caliber Seneca and a .350 rb. which gives me a mass of .386.
What one needs to remember is that that patching material goes into the grooves of the barrel. But you still have all this thickness in the lands of the barrel.
Grooves are the channels if you will in the barrel as you look at it and the lands are the high spots or the part of the barrel that was not cut.
I use the same pillow ticking in all my bp firearms.
I also use 3f powder in them all too
I also use ww lead to make my rb remember they don't even cut into the grooves as they are the size of the lands and have pillow ticking around them which is sliding down the lands.
my .03 cents on the subject

[mooman76]

I have a really old original 32 from the 1800. I don't shoot it much but it takes a .319 ball. The bore i bigger than the newer ones and not really from wear. It shoots surprizingly good too for as old as it is. I have two newer ones, a CVA Deer hunter, why they call it the Deer hunter I don't know because I don't think anyone would hunt deer with it and a DGW 32. I use a 308 RB mould for them but the balls come out to .309/10. They work well for them and I don't think I could get the .319 in there even with a thin patch but I'm not going to try anyway. No need to have them that tight and and a ball stuck half way down the barrel is no fun to deal with.

[chief3]

mooman76, I agree that a .32 is not a good choice for deer hunting but back in 1972 or 73 I was down at the Nationals in Friendship talking with a group of shooters . The subject was the best cal. for deer hunting . An old timer from North Carolina said " when I was a boy I killed 8 deer with a .32 before I heard it wasn't enough gun". We all laughed and he said "it's the truth, used a round ball and 20 grs. of powder. Just have to shoot them in the head"

[mooman76]

Yes, I am sure it could be done and you could kill them with a 22 also but it doesn't always happen that way amd I firmly believe in the humain kill. Most states if not all it would not be legal to hunt deer with a 32 ML.

[DIRT Farmer]

If the barrel is smooth you can seat the 319 ball at the muzzle and pull it out with the cloth on a pure lead ball. when you look at the ball it will be slightly elonguated and show the weave of the patch plus the lands and grouves. The projectile will be formed to your barrel and will slide downwith not much force. In my Green Mountain drop in .40 I load a .400 ball with a hard weave cloth that mikes just over 21 thousands. It takes a smack to seat but will slide down with little more than the weight of the brass range rod. I load up to 60 grains of Goex fffg for the 200 yds. Little balls have to go fast to beat the wind and knock things over. If you would try to load this tight with WW you would cut the patch when trying to seat. Wonder how I found that out? The barrel needs to be clean to load tight.

[DIRT Farmer]

As for deer hunting with small bores, I have read several accounts where the early guys took small bores on the over the mountain hunts. Lead is heavy and when you carry every thing for a 1 o 2 year hunt on your back, a good supply of balls get heavy. Apperently at the Kings Mountain battle in the Revolution, several of the rifles were 40s.

[HEAD0001]

I was also looking for a squirrel rifle. I would have bought a 32 or a 36. I just searched until I found my best deal. And my best deal happened to be on a 36. So guess which one I bought. Accessories are simple. A good range rod is a necessary IMO. Call Cain's in WV. He makes a great one and will cut it to length for you. Then you need a ball starter, jag, and a brush. Cain's carries all that stuff for 32 and 36 caliber, along with rifles. Give him a call. It is a specialized BP shop that has been around a long time.

http://www.cainsoutdoor.com/default.asp

I just bought a really nice custom made Tennessee(Southern) Mountain Rifle. It is a LH 36 caliber cap rifle. Fit to finish is unbelievable. The TMR's are "Plain Jane" in nature. But you can tell a good one when you pick it up. below are a couple of pictures of my new one. If you shop around you can find one just like it.

http://www.claysmithguns.com/lefthand_perc.htm

I have also seen a few used 32 caliber rifles here. Tom.

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/pp...uct/5042/cat/9

[mooman76]

I delt Cains a long time ago when they were known as Mountain State Muzzleloaders. I like doing buisness with them but don't really need much now adays as I have most of what I need.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
I did not read through this entire thread so if I repeat a previous +1 on that.
Big holes are always better.. they leak out faster. But there is one more aspect...
I can thick patch my .36 and shoot down to .28 acuurately enough to pop gophers with me laying in the grass at 25 yards. And thick patching down to .32 is no chore. 50 yards is all I have tried for accuracy but with carefull loading and consistency thick patches work fine in my Getz .36 36" barrel.

[JeffinNZ]

Don't forget that patching material compresses when loaded. My 0.017 ticking compresses down to about 0.007 in a micrometer when I wind the mic up tight. Dutch Schultz talks a lot about patch compression.

[northmn]

Small bores are easier to load with a tighter combo, but I use a short starter in my 25 even. As a rule a short started load will shoot tighter than one that is not. Small bores are used for smaller targets and as such, may be better with a tight combo especially if you are ground squirrel shooting and playing at longer ranges or something like that. I used a 319 ball in my 32'a and had l;ittle problem, Mostly a crown lube issue. I love the small bores but have a 58 in the works for deer hunting. Don't need that much gun but it doesn't hurt. Tracking a deer shot with a small bore can be a challenge. while shot placement is always argued and yes you can kill them with a 22 I have had a couple of instances where deer have moved in the time the brain says pull the trigger and the time the gun went off. With small game you seem to either kill or miss.

Northmn

[DIRT Farmer]

I agree Northmn and when I have taken new hunters, grand kids, or my Dads last deer, I carry my backup rifle, a Kodack 72 double. I have fired it one time at a deer, the last one my Father shot while he was recovering from a farming accident. He made a good hit but I wasn't taking any chances. A .72 ball over 100 grns of ffg works.

I don't have to worry about how much lead I carry, and deer hunt with a flint 50, .495 RB in a Green Mountin barrel with matress ticking, tallow lube,60 grns of ffg. This load can be loaded without a short starter but it is easier.

As for the .32s we had a Black Walnut tree in the back yard of the home place and when the walnuts were gone, it was time to hunt. The rule was to not leave a piece hanging.

[jim4065]

I probably have short starters for most of my muzzleloaders, but seem to recall an article where somebody went through the contents of several hundred "original" shootin' bags and found less than a half dozen short starters. I think his conclusion was that it was regarded as just one more miserable *&^$ thing for most long hunters to carry around.

[DIRT Farmer]

There was an article in Muzzle Blasts lately on shot bags, Interstingly most early bags had a compartment for a mould. I have wondered if the old guys loaded as tight as the shooters do now.

[waksupi]

I probably have short starters for most of my muzzleloaders, but seem to recall an article where somebody went through the contents of several hundred "original" shootin' bags and found less than a half dozen short starters. I think his conclusion was that it was regarded as just one more miserable *&^$ thing for most long hunters to carry around.

I went through a collection of around a hundred original bags, and there were no short starters.
Bag molds were carried mainly to remold bullets recovered from game. I doubt that much bar lead was carried by the longhunters

[northmn]

I did some research a while back on shot making and found out that shot towers sold tons of round ball to the military and the one in St. Louis supplied ball for ML's as well. I have often wondered if the gauge system used back then was also a reference to the sale of lead ball. A 50 cal or 32 ga. would be a sale of 32 ball to the pound. Consider that if you are packing you are better off carrying one pound of ball over one pound of lead ingot in that you will not be able to cast out 32 ball from one pound due to sprue waste and slag. Like Waksupi stated, the bag mold was likely for reclaim purposes. Shart starters were likely not used back then much, if at all, but they still are usable for today. We are bench rest oriented, and have rather high, if not unrealistic expectations for accuracy compared to back then. Also if you shoot a lot a short started load fouls a little less.

Northmn

[jim4065]

I went through a collection of around a hundred original bags, and there were no short starters.
Bag molds were carried mainly to remold bullets recovered from game. I doubt that much bar lead was carried by the longhunters

Sounds logical to me. I would think that before a man left for an extended trip "over the mountains" he took the time to cast into bullets all of the lead that he was going to carry. Any replenishment bar lead would come from the occasional trader. (???)