Leading Problems

[Lavid2002]

Leading problems with my first batch of .45 ACP rounds...

Heres the low down

*Metal used*
A mixture, 3 muffin ingots of WW alloy to 1 muffin ingot of 1 stick on WW alloy

*The Boolit*
Made from this mold
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=313971
Dropped from the mold it sized out to around .4535
I then resized all the boolits to .452 with a lee sizer. The boolits from said sizer have been confirmed to come out to .452 on the spot.

*The gun*
I have slugged it twice with all my readings of the grooves coming out to .450 or .4495

*The lo0ob*
Lee Liquid Alox, I hear less is more so I did a conservative tumble, then sized, then did another conservative tumble. (This is where the problem lies, I think I have used too little LLA, is it possible?)

*The load*
Range brass
6 grains Unique
Wolf Large pistol primer
Seated and lightly crimped until they sit "Flush with the hood" in my 1911


Note:After they are loaded I tumble these rounds to get the LLA off the exposed area of the boolits.


I have pulled one of my boolits and did some measurements on it. I figured maybe crimping the boolits was swaging them down and causing leading problems. But nope....The bullet was .452 on the spot. I think the problem was too little lube. I have purposefully over-lubed 50 boolits and I will be trying them soon (Lubed with LLA)

I have also been told to try the sticky from the lube forum with the JPW and the mineral spirits. I will try this as well.

Any Ideas as to what it could be? If my work is right by bullets are .002" over sized (The prime number right?)
The only things I can think of are
A)Lube
B)Something wrong with my alloy? Isnt FIT KING?! lol

Thanks guys : )

-Dave

[Bret4207]

Yes, fit is King indeed. So lets start with the basics- you have a nice light load, what would seem to be an adequate alloy, boolits of seemingly proper size and a lube that many people (me included) have used successfully. So back to square one- its your barrel as close to surgically clean as possible? If you shot jacketed through it, particularly a new barrel, then it's entirely possible you have jacket fouling ripping that poor boolit to shreds. I would get that barrel really, really clean, and remember that jacket fouling can collect in groove corners and not give the boolit anything to grip. It's also possible, if you have a 45ACP barrel with the very shallow grooves that your alloy may need a bit of juicing, but lets start with my first thought and see about that barrel.

[RobS]

Agree with Bret4207 and when you get that bore clean try running a patch soaked with bit of LLA down it.

[GeneT]

try running a patch soaked with bit of LLA down it.

What does that do?

GsT

[RobS]

It will lube the barrel...........I've seen where the first bullets can start leading and snowball so to speak from there. A clean barrel doesn't have much lube in it and even no lube to speak if a person runs a dry patch down it which takes out the oil. I'm not saying that a dry barrel won't work but it makes more sense to me to have a barrel ready for a cast bullet.

Cast bullets have a lube groove/grooves and the lube helps that bullet from gas cutting and blow by but it also leaves lube in the barrel for the next bullet as well.

[docone31]

I wax my barrels after I have cleaned them.
I do not know if it helps, I just do not get any leading.

[Alex Hamilton]

I wax my barrels after I have cleaned them.
I do not know if it helps, I just do not get any leading.

Docone,

I do not wax or lubricate my barrels, but I don't clean them if I am shooting cast boolits, so the lubricant remains in the bore. When I have to clean the barrel after shooting jacketed bullets I have noticed that it takes several rounds to "condition the bore" and during that time the gun zero wanders and then it settles.

What you are doing is a very good idea and I will do it myself in the future.

Thanks,

Alex

[Alex Hamilton]

Dave,
It is also possible that your alloy is on the soft side. Stick on wheel-weights are pure lead, so I would try casting from clip on wheel-weights alone to see it makes any difference. Normally, soft alloy obturates better by bumping up on firing, but the downside is that it cannot take the enormous torque imparted to the boolit by the rifling. The leading edges of the lands wear alloy and that opens up gaps on the trailong edges and the gas cutting starts.

I would not bother cleaning off the lubricant off the exposed parts of the boolits, unless you are doing it just to make them look better.

Let us know how you get on.

Alex

[Lavid2002]

I only clean them so if I drop them they dont get dirt stuck to them and bring it into my gun. I will go out sometime this week (Wednesday maybe?) and try the JPW and heavily Aloxed rounds. I will condition the bore too.


Should I try quenching these boolits to make them harder with the oven?

Edit: This gun has never had a factory round through it. Or a jacketed round. I simply took it factory new and tried out my first batch of cats BOOOOLITS if it makes a difference : )


-Dave

[RobS]

If you are after a harder bullet then water quenching straight from the mold will be sufficient although that would not be necessary by any means and may give you more problems. If your pulled bullets are at intended diameter (which they are) then you are good to go IMHO with a lower pressure round such as the 45 acp. Heck even with the right fit air cooled WW can be shot successfully from magnums like the 357 and 44 mags. I shoot air cooled WW bullet from my 454 casull, but I also will shoot water quenched too if needed. There is no set rule to casting and reloading only a general rule of what usually works for most individuals and their firearms. I let my gun tell me what works best and never limit myself to a one track mind.

Regarding the gun being new...............well your gun couldn't hurt to be "conditioned" so to speak as sometimes the bores are not as smooth as they ought to be and shooting some jacketed bullets though it could smooth things out should you have any "rough" spots.

If you go this route go back and make sure to clean all the jacket fowling out before going back to lead.

[Lavid2002]

Here are my LLA boolits


I am going to do this
*50 rounds of the boolits lubed like the picture above (More LLA)
*50 rounds heated in the oven to 400 and quenched to try to harden the alloy and LLA'd
*50 rounds with the LLA and JPW that everyone here seems to love so much : )

More info to come soon!

[chris in va]

I use the Lee TL boolit for my Sig 220 and ALOX. Hardly any leading to speak of, but I use a very light load, darn near minimum. If I jack up the Unique to around 7gr, I get a bunch of leading. This is just air cooling the slugs, was told 45acp doesn't require a harder boolit.

What gun are you using? Not a Glock is it?

[deerslayer]

You might try a few j-bullets as mentioned above. i am no expert, but I shoot a similar round in my glock .45 with no leading problems with alox or the alox jpw mix, a light or heavy coat has made no difference to me.

Where is the leading in the barrel?
Have you cleaned it and tried again or was this the only shooting session straight from the box?

[deerslayer]

I use the Lee TL boolit for my Sig 220 and ALOX. Hardly any leading to speak of, but I use a very light load, darn near minimum. If I jack up the Unique to around 7gr, I get a bunch of leading.

What gun are you using? Not a Glock is it?

He said 1911 and glock doesn't make one of those!

[Lavid2002]

Have you cleaned it and tried again or was this the only shooting session straight from the box?

This was the first shooting session right from the box. Heres the deal. Loaded up some ammo tonight. No JPW so I did 3 different loads

1) Poorly pan lubed (Lube wouldnt stay in the groves) with a light coat of LLA
2) Well done pan lubed boolits using 50/50 lube
3)Heavily lubed (Shown above in large pic a few posts ago) Alox boolits.

I have some that I water quenched but I ran out of casings...so I will try these and pick up some JPW while I am out and let you guys know how it goes!

I will try to get out tuesday maybe

_Dave

[big dale]

I traded pff muy last 1911 A couple of decades ago, but I did put a few tons of ww cast boolits H&G #68 threw the 1911's. I never bothered with changing the alloy from plain old wheel weights. It wasen't necessary and they shot just fine the way they were. My favorite load was a substantial bunch of blue dot and I will no longer say how much as the new kids in the powder factory seem to have changeg something since I bought my last keg of it in the mid 80's. Sorry I cannot be much help with advice about bullet lube as I always used the sticks of RCBS pistol lube in my Lyman 450 lubricator/sizer. Sounds like you are doing a bunch of stuff right so my best advice would be to change just one thing at a time till you get it figured out.

The 45's sure are a bunch of fun to shoot. My 1911's were always much more accurate than any of my Glocks.

Have fun with this stuff.

Big Dale

[copdills]

Agree with Bret4207 and when you get that bore clean try running a patch soaked with bit of LLA down it.

I agree , I always run a patch with a little LLA down the barrel before I shoot (plinking) and never have any leading problems

[Edubya]

Dave, I can sense a little frustration in your effort and I don't blame you. I went through similar trials with my first 9mm and then with my .44 mag. I seemed to have resolved those issues by adding a couple ounces of ltin in my alloy. I have the 20# RCBS and with a full pot (within an inch or two from the top) I'll ad 4oz. of 95/5 solder or 6oz. of 50/50 solder.
I don't know all of the reasons, but I do know that this made a difference. I figure that it must have needed that minute bit of tin to toughen up the alloy.

Good luck,
EW

PS: I messed with my guns for more than a year before I could shoot 50 rounds in one session. Maybe, I just shot and cleaned out any roughness but they are a dream to shoot now.

[Alex Hamilton]

I use the Lee TL boolit for my Sig 220 and ALOX. Hardly any leading to speak of, but I use a very light load, darn near minimum. If I jack up the Unique to around 7gr, I get a bunch of leading. This is just air cooling the slugs, was told 45acp doesn't require a harder boolit.

What gun are you using? Not a Glock is it?

Chris,
This is just a guess, but it is possible that your boolits are too small relative to the groove size of the 220. At very low pressures that does not seem to matter because the lubricant obturates. At higher pressures the lubricant is blown through the tiny gap and you get gas cutting.

It could be only a matter of increasing the boolit size by .0005".

Alex

[44man]

I don't know how anyone does it really. I use Felix lube or Lar's lubes on even TL boolits and get no leading with heavy hunting loads.
The few times I tried LLA my barrels leaded so I gave it all away.
The stuff seems to work for some but I could never use it.