Unsized cases BP vs Smokeless

[semtav]

I've noticed a lot of people saying they don't resize for black powder, just use a slip fit. does anyone have any experience doing the same with smokeless?

I just put up a 360 yd gong at my brothers and loaded up a bunch of 40-65 to "test" it out.
I used 20 gr 4227 w/ snover bullet, and didn't resize the brass, just a slip fit. No filler.

Had some pretty consistent hits on one part of the gong, but occasionally would get a shot that would drop unrealistically low.

any feedback? experiences? I may have to try it again only with a filler.

[Buckshot]

..............I've never loaded smokless intentionally with boolits that were an easy slip fit, but I have reloaded a few that did actually have a pretty casual grip. The problem is the difference between smokless and BP. Smokless requires a certain minimum pressure for each type/burn rate in order to be efficient. The higher the pressure goes the more energetic the powder becomes. With smokless it's a balancing act between a squib and a bomb so far as efficiency goes, and with lots of cartridges the optimum efficiency is well over halfway to being a bomb.

Blackpowder on the other hand burns about as efficiently in a pile on the ground as it does bottled up in a cartridge case. Of course it's not quite that simple but in broad terms that's why it can be done with BP and generally doesn't work with smokless.

................Buckshot

[Jim]

All my bottle neck cases are neck sized only. All my straight wall cases get F/L sized.

[semtav]

I was hoping it would change my leading pattern with this load. It didn't, so I've got to try some other things.

[August]

Sounds like vertical stringing, which is a reflection of ballistic variation. Not the best powder for low density applications, IMHO. If you will work up some loads with either 5744 (3rd choice), Unique (2nd choice), or IMR4759 (1st choice), you will find flyers eliminated. Of course, a case full of Goex Cartridge or Swiss 1.5 will work even better than the nitros.

[chris112]

http://www.stolenweapon.com/Stolen-Gun-Home.html

A web site just to list stolen weapons at. I would suggest that all of you that have been ripped off list the rifle there as well as here. I would also suggest that one of the moderators do what ever it is that they do to keep this thread available to all.

[44man]

Sounds like vertical stringing, which is a reflection of ballistic variation. Not the best powder for low density applications, IMHO. If you will work up some loads with either 5744 (3rd choice), Unique (2nd choice), or IMR4759 (1st choice), you will find flyers eliminated. Of course, a case full of Goex Cartridge or Swiss 1.5 will work even better than the nitros.

Maybe a caution to help. I use 4759 in my 45-70 revolver and when working with a 420 gr boolit, I went down to 27 gr once, with Dacron filler too. I use tight boolits and crimp.
I had different sounds and recoil with vertical displacement. I had to increase the powder charge.

[pdawg_shooter]

In bottle neck cases with paper patched bullets I get my best accuracy using un-sized brass. The only exception is a Ruger with a waaaaay oversize chamber neck. If I didnt size the neck for this rifle the bullet would fall out!

[Doc Highwall]

Buckshot said it all. If you are going to use smokeless try using a Lyman neck sizing die. My first choice of powders is AA5744, SR4759 and IMR3031

[montana_charlie]

I was hoping it would change my leading pattern with this load. It didn't, so I've got to try some other things.

Would you care to describe the "leading pattern" that is troubling you?

CM

[JSnover]

I've noticed a lot of people saying they don't resize for black powder, just use a slip fit. does anyone have any experience doing the same with smokeless?

I just put up a 360 yd gong at my brothers and loaded up a bunch of 40-65 to "test" it out.
I used 20 gr 4227 w/ snover bullet, and didn't resize the brass, just a slip fit. No filler.

Had some pretty consistent hits on one part of the gong, but occasionally would get a shot that would drop unrealistically low.

any feedback? experiences? I may have to try it again only with a filler.

I've done it with 4759, no filler, just a card to keep the powder back. It was a single shot, boolits seated to the rifling for a press-fit to chamber. Results were good, no uncalled fliers.