Help me find the truth

[Bad Water Bill]

Bret Ask him to send a complete rundown of his employment since college. Bet he will not answer that either

[Bret4207]

I've come to the conclusion that there are lots more important things to deal with than a blurb in a magazine i disagree with. Ayoob, overall, is one of the better writers. He's feeding his family, he;s pro-gun and a staunch supporter of police officers and law and order. While I wish he;d stop trying to portray himself as a "street cop" (he's not) overall he's one of us.

[JIMinPHX]

In the Fish case, Harold Fish got raked over the coals for carrying a 10mm Kimber. The overzealous prosecutor made a big deal out of him having shot the thug with a super powerful cartridge. He made the stink about the choice of caliber, not the type of ammo. Fish was carrying factory 10mm loads as far as I know.

I sifted through the Lexus Nexus law service, when I had access to it, looking for a case where hand loads were an issue. I didn't find one. It's possible that the word "hand load", or the other search words that I chose simply were not used in some case that did make an issue out of it, but I couldn't find it. Then again, I'm not a lawyer & I don't have much experience with that system, so I may not have been the best person to be trolling through there.

[Jim]

Well, I'm satisfied with all I've seen on this thread and the other one. I think it's a non-issue.

[azrednek]

When I was serving as a juror on a Grand Jury. During a smoke break I asked one of the prosecutors about reloaded ammo in a justifiable homicide. He said if it is justified it would be a non issue as far as he was concerned. He did say though in a pre-meditated situation it could be a factor. He was unaware of any case that reloaded ammo was considered.

[stephen perry]

I work for the County of San Bernardino the real Wild West. Our Engineering building is next to Sheriff's. Amazes me when I see the incarcirated how meek and obliging they are. Some of us have a loud bark but little or no bite. My buds in Arizona and Texas think they are a man's man because they can go heeled. Some dress the part military fatigues bad haircuts hide behind sunglasses and attitudes that keep people away. Break them down to the essentials as Stallone said ain't so bad.

But we claim our rights as citizens as we should not Judge Roy Beans. I stay within the law in Public, at the Range, and in the field while hunting. I could whip most any Nut anywhere but why bother. I walk alone in peace and harmony knowing a superior being has planned my life.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[BruceB]

A couple of points:

1. I have a much higher regard for Ayoob than many posting here. After following his advice and techniques for decades now, I'm satisfied that he knows whereof he speaks. Whether or not he has endured a gunfight means nothing.

1a. What I read about Mas on various Internet boards (including this one) has a striking similarity to BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome) and PDS (Palin Derangement Syndrome), meaning that the authors don't want to either hear about, or acknowledge, REAL ACCOMPLISHMENTS by the subject of their scorn.

2. I'm going to carry what I have decided to carry, and I am neither going to change anyone else's mind, nor are they going to change mine.

That's the Truth as I see it.

[stephen perry]

BruceB
Since the Bush / Palin accomplishments were metioned could you list a couple for both. No dreaming.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[Rocky Raab]

This topic ALWAYS degenerates into chaos and leg whizzing. Inevitably, somebody will take a swing at Massad Ayoob. Somebody will make the "original" comment that it's better to be tried by twelve than carried by six. Somebody will thump his chest and say nobody's gonna tell them what they can't do. Somebody will claim that no intelligent jury (!) would ever convict...

It never, EVER changes.

The bottom line is still this: do what you want, but don't cry "unfair" if YOU become the first to get convicted because of your ammo choice.

[HollandNut]

BruceB
Since the Bush / Palin accomplishments were metioned could you list a couple for both. No dreaming.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

What Bruce is saying here in English is when someone disagrees with a political or public figure , ( or anyone else for that matter ) the person disagreeing is so blinded by their disagreement , that they refuse to believe or see anything good in the person that they are burning at the stake ..

I can give you lots of good for Bush and Palin , much more than his predesessor or his relief .. But as you say no political threads ...

[chris112]

Well, that makes it exactly one case in which the issue of a handload came up, the other one I already mentioned didn't really fit the issue.

So it looks to me like the last time it was an issue was in the 1970's in a police shooting. Not much of a concern IMO.

Funny, he wanted to send me his educational records when I questioned him about it. I wonder why he didn't refer to any of those cases then?

You might want to take another look at that posting. There are at least 3 cases mentioned in it. I didn't go all the way to the bottom.

[Bret4207]

Three cases, only one of which a handload was an issue in court. I did read the entire post, thx.

[cajun shooter]

In my time on the streets of Baton Rouge, La. we have several areas that we call war zones. I have seen that orange ball coming from the other direction. At each and every court case that I was involved with I never once heard What were you shooting factory or reloads? I did hear, Why did you shoot the suspect? or Why did you shoot at the suspect?I also heard and had to answer the following question. Why did you shoot so many times? My riding partner, Jimmy Matthews was killed while knocking on the door of a camp that a call for help had been received from. The suspect fired through the door with a 12ga shotgun taking out his heart. His family sued because we shot him over 30 times. No questions about reloads though. I think that if the time comes for you to use deadly force the fact that your gun contains reloads should be the lest of your worries.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
10 yrs. in law enforcement, dept. mandated factory fodder, never heard of a case where handloads were an issue in UT.,