WW's & black powder

[hydraulic]

Here's a picture of a 2 1/4 inch group I shot today. I have always believed that black powder dictated the use of pure or very soft lead bullets. But I have been hearing guys on this board who have used WW's so I gave it a try. This is the best group I have ever shot with my old Springfield trapdoor. The bullet is a 500 gr RN from an old Herter's mold, which I am sure was made by Lyman, with 65 grs. 2F Elephant, 1 sq. inch of dacron, as much compression on the powder that I could mash into it, and lube is beeswax, canola and crisco. Six slow puffs on the blow tube between shots. This was shot over the bench with bags and my 72 yr old eyes. I have about reached the end of my supply of soft lead and I'm delighted to find out I can shoot WW's, of which I have an abundance.

[roadie]

Just curious, but what is the purpose of the dacron? I use it but only as a filler. I have never recovered any that was'nt melted so I wondered about it protecting the base. Then again, I don't shoot a lot of black powder.

roadie

[docone31]

I have used wheel weights in my front stuffer. With the R.E.A.L., it is a little harder than with pure, but I get good results.
I have more pure than wheel weights, so I use pure.
I tried some with 2%zinc, to stretch it out. That worked also.
Don't have any BP centerfires so I have no idea there.

[hydraulic]

I have never used wads before, but at the Quigley shoot last month i was convinced I should. Lacking a punch, I just used dacron which is recommended for smokeless. I also need a drop tube, and I'm looking for a discarded aluminum arrow to make one. My compression die is a 1/4 inch bolt 4 inches long with the head ground down to match the interior of a .45-70 shell. I use a flat rock to press the bolt down on the powder. I know you are going to ask: I shot 602 in a field of 629. They better look out next year!

[Maven]

Last week I submitted a target to the NMLRA for their July postal match (offhand, 25 yds., any muzzle loading rifle) for which I used patched .490" round balls cast from WW's + 1% Sn + 40grs. FFg. They loaded and grouped no differently than .490" RB's cast from Pb. Btw, this was from an inline rifle with a 1:28" twist bbl. Moreover, when I use BP in my .45-70, it is always with WW alloy and the results @ 100 yds. are very good to excellent. Thus, when the conventional wisdom claims that WW's and BP don't mix or that inline rifles don't shoot Pb roundballs, not to mention those cast from WW's, question that "wisdom."

[Don McDowell]

wheelweights work fine most of the time. The ones I've managed to get as of late seem to have a higher antimony content, and do lead a bit more than the old ones, but you can blend up about 9 lbs of ww's with 1lb of pure lead and help things out abit.
Mike Alexander #5 at the Quigley shoots alot of wheelweight bullets .
If you scrap the dacron and either get you some decent vegetable fiber wads. 030 , or even just punch some wads from kitchen wax paper your groups may tighten up some.

[Boz330]

I've tried WWs and got excellent results for 10 round groups. But had some pretty bad leading with long strings, to the point that accuracy dropped off dramatically. I don't seem to have a problem with a high tin to lead boolit though. My 40-65s seem to like a harder boolit.

Bob

[hydraulic]

Don:

Mike Alexander's 5th place finish was won with a 42 and there were seven of them. A lone 43 won first place. He hit 5 out of the 8 offhand 350 yd targets and if he had hit one more he would have tied for 2nd, 3rd, or 4th. OUTSTANDING! It's just as much fun watching these great BPCR shooters as it is to score well yourself. Well, almost.

[Don McDowell]

I shot a 32, cleaned all 8 on the diamond, and still finished 126th.
Jim B did a super job spotting for Mike, he and Mike make a fearsome team at these shoots, unfortunately Jim's front sight broke so that's how he managed to finish so far back.
Come on down to Alliance the weekend of Aug 22 for the Sagebrush Shoot, it'll be like dejavoo all over again.

[hydraulic]

Don: Thanks. We (mrs. & I) are making plans. I met Harlan at Quigley and it turned out he is from Niobrara and his dad is my wife's old boy friend!!!!! Incidentally, you may have seen me at Quigley; I was the guy in the 1880's army uniform.

[Don McDowell]

I'm the one that asked to look at the inside of your McGiver cartridge box, while we were waiting in line to register.

[hydraulic]

I remember you. I look forward to meeting you again at Alliance.

[Don McDowell]

Sounds good , the wife and I will probably be down there either Thursday evening or early Friday morning, so we can get a good spot to park the ol fishmobile.

[leadman]

I use ACWW in my 40-65 with SPG and no sizing with the 400gr. Snover.
I tried WCWW and running them thru the Luber sizer with LBT Blue Soft. This opened up group sizes considerable.
I had a batch of ACWW boolits that were a little softer then normal. Loaded these with WC872. A little faster than black, but it would be hard for an observer to tell it was smokeless powder. Smoked and fouled the bore like black. Shot very well though.

[MT Chambers]

Okay, here is my take on it and this is strictly from my experience up in Canada hunting big game, not from a target shooting perspective although i use 30-1 for that as well. I find that 30-1 or at most 20-1 bullets(flat points) expand just the way you like them to at under 1400fps, any harder and expansion is more "by luck and by chance". Push the same bullet faster with smokeless and the WW may be your alloy of choice for reliable expansion.
I learned the hard way when i drove 2 bullets through the chest of a huge bull buffler, with my 50/90 Sharps, and the old boy just kept on feeding, the next shot hit him in the ear and he went down, but after that, nothing harder then 20-1 and preferably 30-1 go into my BP .45s and 50s.