9mm-R

[jdgabbard]

Ok, was hanging out at castpics last night. Started reading some articles. Found the one on loading for the 9mm Blackhawk, by beagle. And it got me thinking.

First off, I am NOT loading for a 9mm Blackhawk. Rather I am loading for a SP101 in .38spl. As well as maybe a S&W Mod 65. So given that, I'm looking for guidance.

So I did some tinkering last night. Took a couple .38spl brass and trimmed to 9mm length, next I expanded the neck with a 9mm expander die, followed by seating the boolit with a .38spl seater die. Then followed that up with a crimp with the 9mm die. So what I have now is essentially a 9mm length 38spl dummy round. Its not tapered in width like a 9mm.

I know. Your gonna say why not just load with 38 S&W data. Well the problem is with the boolit selection. Obviously the case is a bit on the short side and I want a pretty light recoiling round for plinking and taking of out door rodents. Would like to load it to 1000fps, but know with the small case and in a firearm that is approaching max velocity at that speed, it is somewhat un-realistic. The boolit I'm looking at loading these with is the 124g Lee TL. So now I have to figure out a load for them. If shooting in my S&W M-65 I know I could go ahead and load just plain 'ol 9mm data. But this is primarily for my Ruger SP101 in 38spl. And while I feel very confident that it would handle the pressure of a 9mm load, there are other things that I must question. Like volume of the cut down .38spl case in comparison to the 9mm case. And how that will affect pressure when fired. You know, the safety mind.

So lemme hear your comments.

[3rptr]

I suppose you can do a comparative volume test with some fine grained powder...

That Ruger is a reasonably strong gun, even though the 9mm operates at much higher pressure.
Start with the reduced 9mm loads? or make comparison on paper between hot 38spcl loads and 9mm loads of the same bullet weight..
Try 5gr Unique w 124gr boolit.
It should get you near the ballpark.

Watch closely for pressure signs.

[Ricochet]

Water's a great medium for measuring case volume. Not too hard to find, fairly inexpensive.

[jdgabbard]

Yeah, only problem with measuring the volume right now is that when I was setting up the press to size some cases this morning I dropped a die on my digital scale. And its jacked up. Gonna have to buy a new one.

[jdgabbard]

Man, I will tell you one thing. When it comes to trimming .38spl brass down to size this is one labor intensive task. Using a tubing cutter to take off the bulk then using the trimmer to get it right on size. But there sure isn't a lot to hold onto. After trimming a lot of 50 down, I have 4 good blisters on my hands.

But one step closer. Anyone else have any suggestions on what load I should start with? Been thinking about starting with 2.5g to 3.0g of bullseye. And be in the 800fps area I would think.

[MT Gianni]

I think the wheel has already been invented. I would go with the standard length case, a wadcutter and 3.7-3 gr Bullseye. That should prove accurate enough in any 38 for what you want done. i think bullet jump will negate the effenciency of the shorter case.

[jdgabbard]

What makes you think boolit jump will "negate the efficiency of the shorter case" ??? Its not really any different then say a .38s&w, or a small cased .32 caliber. You don't see problems in those guns with boolit jump.

[jdgabbard]

Alright guys, I've been looking over data for the last day. Trying to figure out what a starting load should be. What I am wanting to do is work my way up to about 900-950 fps.

So now I'm calling on you more experience loaders for a little advice. The catridge case is essentially a .38 Short Colt case. As it measures about 0.750" and the Short Colt has a trim to length of 0.755". Now The only data I have for a Short Colt is for a 93g LRN, 115g LRN, and a 135g LFP.

I found some data over at handloads.com for the 38 Long Colt. It uses 3.0g of Unique under a 125g LRN for 650 fps. Now one would think that this would be a great starter load, however I am wondering about the pressure differences as a result of volume of cases. For an example 4.0g of Unique under a 120g LRN in a .38spl will give you approx 725 fps with 9000 cup. You put 4.0g Unique with that same 120g LRN into a 9mm case and you get 1013 fps and a whopping 26,500 cup!!!

You you can see why I am a bit hesitant to load that, as 3.0g Unique might be around max in my SP101. So what do you "wiser men then Me" suggest? One of you has to have gone through a similar debate over data....

[bruce drake]

Use the data from the 38 short Colt with the 135gr boolit for your project. It's a blackpowder chambering so the data should be in the same pressure range. I was trolling the old columns and read this. I had a 32 Long Colt Police Model Spanish EIBAR pistol that I used 32 ACP bullets and 32 Short data for a long time before the old pistol was retired to the wall because I found an actual S&W Police Pistol in 32 Long.

Bruce

[bigdog454]

Why trim the case? I use 38 s&w loading data and just seat the bullet deep in the case. ie the overall length of the case to the top of the bullet is the same as a 38 s&w. Doing this, I've been able to load down to the point where the bullet just leaves the barrel and you can see it going down range. This solves the bullet jump and the case volume problem. The bullet just thinks that it's going down a longer bbl. I've shot as low as 1 grain of hp38 but would recommend a llittle more maybe 1 1/2 gr. I've seen no pressure signs or ill effects.

[Dan Cash]

What makes you think boolit jump will "negate the efficiency of the shorter case" ??? Its not really any different then say a .38s&w, or a small cased .32 caliber. You don't see problems in those guns with boolit jump.

A short case in a long chamber is an invitation to blow by before the bullet hits the forcing cone. Seems to me you are doing a lot of work for no gain.

[lylejb]

i guess i just don't understand what your trying to do here

an sp101 is plenty strong enough for 38+p loads, which will get your 1000fps,
no brass cutting required.

as far as light recoil, it's physics. For every action there's an equal and opposite reaction. Simply, the harder you push the bullet, the harder it's going to push you.
Case length /volume /pressure doesn't figure into the recoil equasion. It's simply force.

trying to get a 38+p velocity with a reduced recoil simply won't happen...your trying to go opposite ways at the same time.

for reduced recoil load, i use 2.7gr of trail boss with a 158 lswc. this is the starting load for "cowboy action" 38special. it's listed as 660fps, and has about
1 1/2 times the recoil of a 22lr which is virtually none. I think with your lighter bullet, this would probably clock at about 750fps or so.

LB

[Terrier]

I load some real light stuff for a couple of recoil shy ladies and the kids to shoot. It consists of a 125 gr RNFP over a very light dose of Clays. If you want reduced recoil you will have to reduce velocity, bullet weight, or both. If you want 1000 fps you will not have low recoil.
Terrier