Wasp Rice Shot Loads: .38/.45LC

[steve urquell]

I need to send you some 454 brass or even 303 British!

Geez, you're gonna get me in trouble. I'm guessing the brit has .45LC case dimensions? Would be interesting to swage the neck down to .355 and use the gelatin capsules. Hmm...303 Super Wasp Destroyer?

I've been playing with that a little. I just made a few dummies with basically packing in as much as I can and still get the capsule together. It looks like it should work great. I figured some would break. But none broke. Good to know you're already doing that.

This is the most fun collaborative field lab exercise I've played in a long time.

They are surprisingly tough. One of my pics on here has the overfilled capsule sticking up out of the brass before seating. Probably 3/4".

And yes, this has been fun.

[Barry54]

I assumed the derringer was chambered in 45/410 that you are using the 9mm adaptors in. 303 will chamber just fine in many 410’s. They make everlasting 410 cases. They should hold plenty of rice!

[steve urquell]

I assumed the derringer was chambered in 45/410 that you are using the 9mm adaptors in. 303 will chamber just fine in many 410’s. They make everlasting 410 cases. They should hold plenty of rice!

Interesting. Yep, it is .45/.410.

[dverna]

Nice job again Steve. Those lead loads look awesome!!

[steve urquell]

Nice job again Steve. Those lead loads look awesome!!

Thank you sir. SureYnot did a great job on his as well. The 2 shots of #12 out of the 9mm and .38 did this to the chairs I had the cardboard target backer laying on.

[Texas by God]

Thank you sir. SureYnot did a great job on his as well. The 2 shots of #12 out of the 9mm and .38 did this to the chairs I had the cardboard target backer laying on.

That is that “snake cutting” thing that I was telling you about….


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[elmacgyver0]

Thank you sir. SureYnot did a great job on his as well. The 2 shots of #12 out of the 9mm and .38 did this to the chairs I had the cardboard target backer laying on.

Bet your wife is happy about that.

[steve urquell]

That is that “snake cutting” thing that I was telling you about….
Super dense load and damage for sure. Thanks for the shot. I may shoot a water jug and video it.

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Super dense load and damage for sure. Thanks for the shot. I may shoot a water jug and video it.

Bet your wife is happy about that.

These were just waiting to go to the dumpster. Not used.

[sureYnot]

Seeing as how I no longer have a .38 but still have plenty brass, I unlazied myself enough to finally reset my die for a .38 case. I figure it's better to abuse that brass as opposed to my precious .357. Exact same load. Worked just swimmingly....for rice. Lead does not tolerate being smashed as much as rice. Or rather, the caps don't tolerate lead being smashed as much. The lead shot was happy to point out that the caps can, and will, break and get jammed in your die. I adjusted this, that, and the other thing, hither and yon (including various sizing, seating & crimping dies) to no avail. Finally accepted defeat and subtracted 30gn from the under capsule payload. I was able to then put more in the capsule, for a net loss of about 20gn total payload, still yielding 150gn. Good enough for who and what it's for. As my reloading room is carpeted, my vacuum is not pleased with the results.

[steve urquell]

I thnk your crimp got them before they fully crunched down.. Mine will squash and form into bullet shapes without the crimp touching the case.

[steve urquell]

OK, here's a different spin on it but also to show how I squish the capsule down to increase capacity.

.38 case ran deep into the .380 die to swage it down in size


1 gelatin capsule top filled with # 7 1/2 shot placed directly on top of 3.1gr of TiteWad powder(no wad)


Each half of the other gelatin capsule filled with #12 shot



A very full capsule that will not fully snap closed placed in the case top down. You can see the edge of the capsule top at the top of the case


Seated using the same .380 seater die I swaged the case down with


Now, video of a water jug shot. What is not evident in this is that the shot did not exit and a lot of the water came back at me. I took a bath and had water 20ft back behind me. It all came back. Most of the #12 shot was in the jug. I think this is like a Glaser safety slug. Good God it would mess you up.
https://youtube.com/shorts/d3sofklxkyE?feature=shared

[sureYnot]

380 seater was one of the things I tried. I'm using #8. I don't think it wants to "settle" as well as #12. I might take a whack at it again. But, for now, I'm done with cleaning up shot.

[steve urquell]

380 seater was one of the things I tried. I'm using #8. I don't think it wants to "settle" as well as #12. I might take a whack at it again. But, for now, I'm done with cleaning up shot.

I think you are crimping before the capsule is seated all the way. I just did a 7 1/2 shot load. 50gr of shot in 1/2 a capsule on top of the powder then 110gr in a capsule. 160gr payload.




ETA: I mat not be having problems here because I can't hit the crimp part of the die since the brass is already swaged as small as the crimp could crimp it.

[sureYnot]

I may have guessed wrong on my shot#. I measured a while back and determined it was #8. (It came in a box of "stuff") Mine weighs 1.1-1.2gn per bb. I get 42-45gn in the "cap" of the capsule, which is less than what you get. It's a compromise between the .380 case and the cut-down .380 case. And it works every time for the under capsule payload. Maybe your capsules are more flexible than mine? They are different brands. Or perhaps it's just more humid where you are? IDK.
To the point...I got away with one capsule cap under the over-filled capsule, for ~155gn total payload. If I get nothing else from your latest post, I've found the best "dipper" for the under-capsule payload. I love brainstorming.

[steve urquell]

I may have guessed wrong on my shot#. I measured a while back and determined it was #8. (It came in a box of "stuff") Mine weighs 1.1-1.2gn per bb. I get 42-45gn in the "cap" of the capsule, which is less than what you get. It's a compromise between the .380 case and the cut-down .380 case. And it works every time for the under capsule payload. Maybe your capsules are more flexible than mine? They are different brands. Or perhaps it's just more humid where you are? IDK.
To the point...I got away with one capsule cap under the over-filled capsule, for ~155gn total payload. If I get nothing else from your latest post, I've found the best "dipper" for the under-capsule payload. I love brainstorming.

Yeah, no telling why your won't scrunch down. Sounds like mine may be more bendy. I really like the extra payload in the capsule cap to avoid messing with a wad. I cut down the other end to the same length as the cap so I get use out of both ends. Compared to commercial shot capsules(if you can even find them) this is the deal of the century.

My #7.5 shot measures .090", #12 was .055-.060"

[sureYnot]

Whatever mine is measures 0.092-0.093.
I'm still using wads over powder instead of dropping the cap in. 2 reasons. I'm very cheap ( pronounced "frugal"), and I already put in the work on them. Same reason I still have a pile of pink, 125gn bullets that I'll probably never send. I should probably PIF some and the PC, too. It encouraged my then wife to shoot. Sometimes you gotta trick them into liking your hobbies.

[steve urquell]

So I solved the dilemma of the non-scrunching .38 loads when trying to use a roll crimp. I could not get my .38 dies to seat the capsule before trying to crimp it so the capsule was hanging out of the case too far.

I first ran the cases thru a .38 resizing die and re-primed them.
Then I took the decapping/depriming pin out of my .300BLK sizing die and set the depth to where a .38 case would be crimped by the resizing area where the shoulder of a .300BLK case is.

I found that a 5/16" bolt fits the bore of it perfectly.
I figured out how much bolt length I needed to push the gel capsule to the depth I wanted it using flat washers to set the depth.

Then I just held the bolt down with a 4lb chunk of iron while I seated the capsules. This was for testing only. All I need to do moving forward is to either buy another decapping pin and cut it down as the capsule seater or cut down a bolt to go inside the .300BLK die. The only problem is retention of the bolt so it doesn't fall out the bottom of the die.

These have a full top 1/2 of a capsule full of rice or shot (directly on the powder charge with no wad) under a fully filled capsule on top of it. I overfilled these to where they would barely fit together so I could make sure they would crunch down.

[dverna]

So I solved the dilemma of the non-scrunching .38 loads when trying to use a roll crimp. I could not get my .38 dies to seat the capsule before trying to crimp it so the capsule was hanging out of the case too far.

I first ran the cases thru a .38 resizing die and re-primed them.
Then I took the decapping/depriming pin out of my .300BLK sizing die and set the depth to where a .38 case would be crimped by the resizing area where the shoulder of a .300BLK case is.

I found that a 5/16" bolt fits the bore of it perfectly.
I figured out how much bolt length I needed to push the gel capsule to the depth I wanted it using flat washers to set the depth.

Then I just held the bolt down with a 4lb chunk of iron while I seated the capsules. This was for testing only. All I need to do moving forward is to either buy another decapping pin and cut it down as the capsule seater or cut down a bolt to go inside the .300BLK die. The only problem is retention of the bolt so it doesn't fall out the bottom of the die.

These have a full top 1/2 of a capsule full of rice or shot (directly on the powder charge with no wad) under a fully filled capsule on top of it. I overfilled these to where they would barely fit together so I could make sure they would crunch down.

Very smart and they look good too.

[steve urquell]

Very smart and they look good too.

Thank you. I know on the looking good part too. I wanted these to be clear and look good as well. Doesn't matter to function but it does look more professional. I just had an idea on the capsule seater plunger. I will sort it out and report my findings.

[Shawlerbrook]

Read through this whole thread. I have a flock of carpenter bees buzzing around my log cabin so I am going to try some 38 Spec. rice medicine to thin the flock. Don’t have any Bullseye but have some shotgun powder(700x, 7625) as well as a good selection of others. Looking for some recommendations as a good choice. Will 1 gr be sufficient for a 38 case of rice ?