What IS the difference in factory vs home made?

[armoredman]

We tried like all get out to answer some of that today, and if the WIND hadn't been so nuts...well, we might know more.

As it is, Da Boy brought out the Hip Howitzer to see what the difference might be between 3F Goex and some LAGS made 3F Toilet Paper powder. I hope the TP was fresh, and not used - that extra smell in the air might be too much.



First, he shot with Goex - for the ones who gave him grief about using light loads like 20-30 grains...he forgot his pistol powder measure at home, so these shots were charged with 60 grains each. That first one got his attention RIGHT away!



However, in his fine tradition...



Now, this is where you use the images above to build new ones in your mind's eye...because my camera took such lousy photos you can't SEE what was going on! But what did happen is he loaded with 60 grains of the TP powder, and fired. He said the recoil was just slightly less, and the ball hit higher. To him and me, the recoil seemed about the same, but it might have been hot rod loads in such a small pistol.
In any case it was just plain fun! But the wind wouldn't even let him pour powder...maybe next time.

[Kosh75287]

That's STILL cool. And I don't even OWN a muzzle-loader.

[challenger_i]

That's "Muzzle-Stuffing Hip Howitzer"! Get it right!

[armoredman]

Note the recoil was stout enough to unseat the ramrod. Whoops. On the other hand, I'll bet anything on the other end of that 220 grain lead ball would have a REALLY bad day.

[LAGS]

The pistol seems to be durable.
If you didn’t have a 30 or 40 grain powder measure.
Why don’t you only half or 3/4 fill the 60 grain measure.

[armoredman]

Because I didn't know what he had loaded it with until after he fired...oops.

[2TM101]

That looks like a Jukar pistol - I have several, most of mine are .45. I have them from .32 up to .65. I have made several batches of powder that didn't work out so great - but with these you just increase the amount of powder until it works right. I find myself routinely putting 60 grains in these anyway, but its golden powder, Crimson Powder, starch powder or some other stuff that turned out to be so weak it couldn't be used in cap& ball revolvers - and certainly not cartridges (Tried, it would squib).

In fact, I made so much mediocre garbage I'm shooting my single shot muzzleloaders more than anything else.

[2TM101]

The style of the grip, and how big these are, actually makes them comfortable to shoot with heavy loads in them. I put 80 grains of real BP in my Jukar .45 once - range master thought the gun had blown up it was so loud. But all was good.

[Texas by God]

Fifty grains of FFG from my .54 Plains Pistol set an 8point buck dead on his butt at 40 odd feet. No thanks on the 60 gr. load!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dondiego]

That looks like a Jukar pistol - I have several, most of mine are .45. I have them from .32 up to .65. I have made several batches of powder that didn't work out so great - but with these you just increase the amount of powder until it works right. I find myself routinely putting 60 grains in these anyway, but its golden powder, Crimson Powder, starch powder or some other stuff that turned out to be so weak it couldn't be used in cap& ball revolvers - and certainly not cartridges (Tried, it would squib).

In fact, I made so much mediocre garbage I'm shooting my single shot muzzleloaders more than anything else.

This one was made from spare parts laying around LAGS laboratory!

[armoredman]

Yes it was - the only factory items are the lock and barrel, and the barrel was a stub cut off a rifle barrel!
We will schedule to go back out next weekend, and perhaps the weather will cooperate. I have seen the wind coming down off that mountain so bad it has blown steel targets over, but yesterday was really bad

[LAGS]

That Lock was rebuilt from a Factory Lock So that it fit and worked on this pistol.
Factory parts can be redesigned or modified to fit other guns you build.
The barrel cut off had to have a factory breech plug fitted and then a nipple drum fit to the barrel for shooting percussion caps.

[charlie b]

Perfect for concealed carry Nice looking little thing too!

[armoredman]

Next step is to bring the 1860 and both home made powders to the range this coming weekend and set up the Chrony. I wanna see what the differences are in the same load and the adjusted load for the less energetic home made powders, as opposed to what I have the most on hand right now, 3F Olde Eynsford. I'll take out a rod/jag and a little bottle of soapy water to clean the arbor and sponge the barrel between cylinders, try to keep it fair.
Why the 1860? She doesn't get much range time anymore with all the new stuff, so it's time to show the old warhorse a little love, especially after Jackrabbit1957 put so much effort into rebuilding her.


I've only got another weekend left before the wife's surgery, after that everything is on hold until she is fully recovered.

[armoredman]

Perfect for concealed carry Nice looking little thing too!

That's why he added the pirate hook to the side - so Da Boy can pull it with his right hand while his left swings his cutlass, shouting, "ARRRRGH!"

[LAGS]

I took a powder measure like you have in that picture of the 1860 and ReStamped it with marks that are accurate for the lighter density homemade powder.
That way I don’t have to be figuring out the correct load when I use my homemade powder and make it match the weight of factory powders.
It wasn’t that hard to do and looks like it can cut down loading mistakes using the same powder measure .

[Wayne Smith]

And the real answer to your question is - CONSISTENCY. That's the real difference.

[indian joe]

And the real answer to your question is - CONSISTENCY. That's the real difference.

Wayne I would argue consistency in HM is easy to achieve

never gonna happen with 47 different little eggcup batches tho --------

make it a few kilos at the time and do a big blend after corning and screening = consistency ....commercia still has some batch to batch variation (even Swiss according to the long range gurus)

something that is very negative to consistent (my opine) is using alcohol in the process - alky is fuel and adds to the power of the mix at the early stages but it slowly evaporates out (until you can no longer smell it when you open the container) and that alky powder loses a bit as it ages = not consistent

That (alky) was one of my mistakes / early learnings

[armoredman]

So stage 2

We started off with the 1860 and three powders, 3F H040, 3F Toilet Paper, and the control, 3F Olde Eynsford. BTW, there is just something so sexy about an 1860 Colt Army, isn't there? All charges were 30 grains. I know that LAGS was talking about adjusting for the different "poof" powder; I wanted a baseline.



First up was the H040. Do note, the target was merely out there to give me a consistent aiming point, as I discovered MANY years ago, you really need an aiming point when using a chronograph. That mistake cost me a brand new Chrony F1, the sixth round went right through the faceplate. Oops.
However, having said all that, that was set at 7 yards, the average distance for a gun fight. The revolver grouped BEAUTIFULLY at that distance, and if I was stuck with nothing but my 1860 in a barroom brawl, I think she would handle just fine.





Average velocity, low, but I'll bet it would have done some serious damage.



And this is where things started to go sideways. I brought out soapy water and a rod/patches so I could clean the bore and the arbor between rounds, so to keep the fouling down. What I did not expect is to be unable to get the wedge out! So I was only able to patch the bore, and the arbor gunked up FAST.

So next is the Toilet Paper Powder. Contrary to what I expected, it was faster than the H040, cleaner and check out that Standard Deviation for hand poured black powder!







Then the control, the Olde Eynsford 3 F. It had, obviously, much more boom, and more velocity. Oddly enough, the SD on the OE was 42, and it wasn't as accurate. At this time the arbor let me know it was pretty much done, trying to cycle with wet cement. I need another tube of Bore Butter.

Key takeaways - the TP produced the least amount of smoke, was the most consistent, and gave me a very accurate group. Perhaps 113 FPs isn't a real thumper, but for small game, certainly doable, plus, I will try this again with the load adjusted for type. This established my base. Also, bring more balls - I only had three left when I was done.

This was only Stage 2, and Stage 3 will be the long guns, 54 caliber smokepoles.

[LAGS]

The 30 gr of that TP powder was only 113 FPS ?
That doesn’t seem right.
It seems to be a faster cleaner powder.
That HO40 is made with red cedar charcoal.
The Name HO40 refers to grain size of 3f
It means the strained powder “ Holds on a #40 screen” which is 3f.
Both those powders are Corned with a density of around 80% of Goex