Wasp Rice Shot Loads: .38/.45LC

[steve urquell]

The capsules are a great idea!

Instead of wax, how about Lee Liquid Alox to stick them in place? Would it degrade the capsule material?

I think I have some in my reloading stuff. I'll check it out. I did do some capsules with wax but the ones with tape are stuck better abeit a bit tedious to do.

[steve urquell]

Still playing around with the capsules. I kinda fell into something with them. I took the piece of brass that I overcrimped. It had a waist in it 3/16" down. I flared it and then put the capsule in it which made it tighter around it then ran it thru the seater die which scrunched everything together making it tight. Still tweaking it. If they are loose I can use a birthday candle and hold the case at an angle and get wax on the case mouth around the capsule.

Lee Alox was a big no way. Sticky, stinky and did not secure the capsule even after being left overnight.

[HWooldridge]

With access to a lathe, one could turn any size capsule from plastic rod and also make caps. Most folks don’t shoot huge amounts of small shotloads so the production time would be minimal.

[steve urquell]

With access to a lathe, one could turn any size capsule from plastic rod and also make caps. Most folks don’t shoot huge amounts of small shotloads so the production time would be minimal.

Yep. You don't load a ton of these. I initially shot ~25 wasps but that culled the ones I had hanging around the house. It's been slim pickings since my initial foray into it.

Once I get this figured out and a good method to secure them the extra time will be negligible. Still got a few tricks up my sleeve. I'll update as I get it going in the right direction.

[dverna]

Just an update wrt using paper straws for .38 Spl "shot" cups.

The 9mm straws were too large. The 9mm straws just barely fit a slightly belled .38 case but would not seat down far enough. I might be able to make them work but it was going to be too much dinking around. I am lazy.

Ordered 8 mm straws and they will arrive next week.

Couple of thoughts:

I want paper straws that are biodegradeable as I do not want to pick up plastic bits. I plan to use paper "gas checks" to seal the top and bottom of the straw and glue them in place.

For those of you who could use plastic cups, plastic straws might be worth looking at. I think plastic straws would work for lead shot loads and would be easy to seal using heat like the gearnasher method.

Another thing I will try is a two part capsule for the .38 using a section of 8mm straw seated deep in the case, and the 9mm straw extended out far enough to maximize "shot" load. The 9mm straw will provide a good crimp surface at the mouth of the case.

[steve urquell]

Just an update wrt using paper straws for .38 Spl "shot" cups.

The 9mm straws were too large. The 9mm straws just barely fit a slightly belled .38 case but would not seat down far enough. I might be able to make them work but it was going to be too much dinking around. I am lazy.

Ordered 8 mm straws and they will arrive next week.

Couple of thoughts:

I want paper straws that are biodegradeable as I do not want to pick up plastic bits. I plan to use paper "gas checks" to seal the top and bottom of the straw and glue them in place.

For those of you who could use plastic cups, plastic straws might be worth looking at. I think plastic straws would work for lead shot loads and would be easy to seal using heat like the gearnasher method.

Another thing I will try is a two part capsule for the .38 using a section of 8mm straw seated deep in the case, and the 9mm straw extended out far enough to maximize "shot" load. The 9mm straw will provide a good crimp surface at the mouth of the case.

Looking forward to your results. One thing I like about the capsules I'm using is that they are gelatin. Dissolve in water/biodegradable/digestable

[Gtrubicon]

What if you used paper cartridges? I make them for my cap n ball pistols. I bought a kit a couple of years ago. Fill the paper cartridges with rice, twist the top to retain it and seat it in a primed and charged case? I think it would work. I’d try it but I just had surgery to re attach a torn bicep. I will be one handed for at least 6 weeks.

[Gtrubicon]

I can’t post photos here, but would be glad to email or text pictures to anyone unfamiliar with what paper cartridges look like.

[steve urquell]

They're always going under my siding. I figured that was bad. I'm from the north until the last few years. Some of the creatures here are new to me.
You inspired me to read a little. I've killed 2. Those will be the only 2. Thanks.

The above is regarding skinks on the porch. I was admiring a really big one on my porch today amazed at his size when all of a sudden...WHAM!! An American Kestrel blazes across my porch and snatches him up. He was going 100mph 6" inside the porch post and a couple inches off the deck. Couldn't believe it it happened so fast. Blazing fast little falcon.

[sureYnot]

The above is regarding skinks on the porch. I was admiring a really big one on my porch today amazed at his size when all of a sudden...WHAM!! An American Kestrel blazes across my porch and snatches him up. He was going 100mph 6" inside the porch post and a couple inches off the deck. Couldn't believe it it happened so fast. Blazing fast little falcon.

Wow. What a sight!

[steve urquell]

OK, I got it figured out and am happy with the results. No extra glue, tape, nothing needed to secure the capsules. Brass just needs a modification and then can stay for use with shot loads. I was using old janky brass I chucked in the recycle bin anyways since it's for almost no pressure loads.

I played around with #7.5 shot today just for the heck of it but this will apply to rice loads too. Also .38spl can be done the same.

OK, here we go:
First I ran the primed brass into a .380 bullet seater/crimp die(can also be a 9mm but I had my 9mm setup in my progressive press) that was set really deep to basically make the case a bottlenecked .330" case at the case mouth. A .32 die that didn't size the body might work here. I'm open to suggestions here on alternate dies. My .300blk won't work because the body of the die is smaller than a 9mm case but may work with a .357 case.
9mm case after .380 deep seater/crimp die:


Next I ran it thru the powder thru expander die and also dropped 3.1gr of Titewad in it. It would be 0.5gr for rice. This made it have a waist. You don't need to do this on a .38 or .357 case because it doesn't need to seat on the case mouth.


Next I filled the capsule with shot and also added a second capsule cap over the existing one--doubling the thickness. Either end can be used here if the base has the first 1/8 snipped off(it has a bump which you remove formed in it to locks the capsule together). The double capped end is put down in the case directly on the powder charge. If you use the small capsule base over the bigger cap it will split but it doesn't matter--the seater die will iron it all out.


Run thru the seater die and it scrunches everything together. I rocked a razor blade on the tip and X-cut it to ensure the shot comes out.



It works perfectly and the capsules are tight. If you do with with .38 cases and don't flare them you will have even better retention.

Blowing up a can with the #7.5 shot.
https://youtube.com/shorts/G1QhYi-qOHc?feature=shared

[Electrod47]

Save

[steve urquell]

So I made a procedural error and corrected it to make using the gelatin capsules easier. I was first swaging the cases down in the .380 crimp then resizing in the 9mm die then flaring. In doing that it was losing some of the waist and I needed to double the capsule cap.

I fixed that today by resizing/priming first then swaging, then flaring. That allows me to keep more waist in the case and it no longer needs the second capsule cap to tighten up in the case.

I also thought about doing .38spl with capsules. To get all the extra volume of the capsule I would seat a cardboard wad over the powder then add 1/4" or more of rice then add a filled capsule. Just a capsule would be flush in the .38 case.

[steve urquell]

Ok heres the .38spl. 1 run thru the crimper to swage it down at the neck, 2gr powder, cardboard wad, 11gr of rice on the wad topped with a filled gelatin gapsule for a payload of 26.7gr of rice.

[steve urquell]

Whoa, the .38spl load is devastating.

[sureYnot]

I've been waiting forever for my capsules to arrive so I can steal your ideas (again) and modify them (again). Supposed to come on Tuesday.

[steve urquell]

I've been waiting forever for my capsules to arrive so I can steal your ideas (again) and modify them (again). Supposed to come on Tuesday.

Ha,ha! Steal away. I feel like the capsules are the ultimate way to cram more rice into these things. The powder charge on the .38 is 2.0gr vs .5gr for the 9mm.

One thing you will find out is there is a certain amount of fill on the capsules that allows them to seat and crush down just right. You have to play around with it and your bullet seater setting to get it right.

[sureYnot]

Ha,ha! Steal away. I feel like the capsules are the ultimate way to cram more rice into these things. The powder charge on the .38 is 2.0gr vs .5gr for the 9mm.

One thing you will find out is there is a certain amount of fill on the capsules that allows them to seat and crush down just right. You have to play around with it and your bullet seater setting to get it right.

I have a different idea... but I don't want to say, unless it works. Lol

[steve urquell]

I have a different idea... but I don't want to say, unless it works. Lol

Rock on with it. Interested in your results

One thing about it--we are getting better at it.

[steve urquell]

First victim of the 9mm gelatin load just now. 3ft flying and weaving point and shoot. Knocked his guts out.



I turned around and there was a flying stinging deer fly looking thing behind me. Got him with the second barrel from 3ft as well.