Keeping stuff safe

[Shell knob]

Posting in this section bc it kinda applies. Wife n I are going to build new house in rural area. I have always been worried about some low life’s breaking in when I’m gone. My safe is just a “home containment container”, aka liberty safe. I worked part time in the trades about 20 yrs, framing,roofing,siding HVAC,and electrical, while full time now retired LEO. I was thinking flexcore concrete in part of the garage to create a room below with access thru basement with a safe door, with a Murphy door or bookcase hiding safe door I think the doors are more secure than a safe. All walls, ceiling and floor would be concrete. Big enough area to display clean and work on guns, set up reloading area, and display some mounts,store hunting gear etc. I might add recently burglars were scrambling home security systems with some sort of jammer disabling Wi-Fi and alarms.
I think this would be a better system than a plain old safe. Thoughts?

[WILCO]

Honestly, big picture it doesn't matter.
Build it if it's what you want, but doing things out of worry is a waste of time and resources.
I speak from experience.

[RichardB]

be sure add a drain for the dehumidifier. If I was building new I would also include an underground range. Concrete culvert built right out of your proposed room.

[Minerat]

Friend of mine did just that. Only built a reinforced concrete room off the basement with 10" thick walls all around. They then put a heavy safe door on and covered it with a bookcase that slid out of the way. The bookcase slides would retract so it appeared to be fixed to the wall. Push a hidden button and the runners extended so it could be moved. It is fire proofed and climate controlled with racks and shelves. They put it on the front of the house so anyone trying to dig into it from the outside would be full in view of the road and neighbors.

[tunnug]

My buddy did that when he built his 2 car detached garage, made it same size footprint as a basement split into 2 rooms, first room is your standard storage basement with the second room reinforced as you describe with a high quality steel door, so you have the garage locking with a lockable steel door to the basement, that makes three locks to defeat.
Would I do the same if I had the chance? in a heart beat.

[Hick]

Having moved from a city area to a rural one myself, I would say you have nothing to worry about. The crime rate is dramatically lower in many rural areas. Low-lifes prefer more crowded areas where the pickings are easier and require less travel.

[MrWolf]

You are building a new house so why not factor in a hidden room? Will be much cheaper and easier to access. Can always fireproof, etc as needed.

[Gtrubicon]

Get a pre cast concrete septic tank, set it proper with drainage all the way around with gravel. About 200’ from the house, naturally concealed. Nobody will ever look for it.

[Winger Ed.]

After spending 12 years in the safe & security business, I learned:

Most criminals are opportunists and basically lazy.
They want to take advantage of a easy situation, be quick, and get away without being seen.
They aren't going to attack a heavy, TL rated safe, much less a vault door.

The people with that skill set are looking to get into the safe down at the jewelry store
that has a couple million dollars worth of Gold & diamonds in it.
They have no interest in Grandpa's old .30-30, your old Colt, or tax records.

What has been proven to be the quickest, and most effective way to open the door of a hardened target
is putting a .22 pistol behind its owner's ear.

Probably your most practical approach is a safe room for tornados, and a higher end large safe.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I know of three different people that build a "Safe room" under the double garage floor.
If I had the money, That is what I'd do.

[imashooter2]

Do you have heirlooms to protect? Otherwise, how does price compare to a good insurance policy?

[fg-machine]

I tend to agree with the statement that most thieves don't bother with safes and difficult to open objects .
I have seen the results of two successful thefts from " budget " gun safes though .

Funny thing is they didn't try to attack the lock or preform any surgery to open them up .
What they did was rather simple , they knocked the safes over , rolled one corner up onto a random object to induce some stress into the structure and used a bar to flex the side then the top and bottom off the lock bars .

If the safes had been built into a wall or closet chances are it would have taken more time to break into then the thieves would have been willing to invest . But with easy access to all 4 sides ..

Two guys with a dolly can just wheel one right out the door very quickly if it's not secure .

[Winger Ed.]

Two guys with a dolly can just wheel one right out the door very quickly if it's not secure .

Very true.
Our company put 4-6" anchor bolts into concrete floors for everything that weighed less than a ton for that reason.

[dverna]

I had $80k of insurance for my guns and 'stuff' before I downsized. IIRC my premium was about $350. All I needed was a home security system to get the "discount".

What you are contemplating is nice to have but essentially worthless. You will still need insurance for your guns and 'stuff'.

But I did not own anything that was "priceless". My most expensive guns were high end trap guns (over $15k each) that could be replaced relatively easily.

I agree with another poster about incorporating an underground range. That would be something you could use regularly and give a lot of enjoyment. I wish I had done that in the new place.

[John Wayne]

You have a great plan, stick to it and as has been said, floor drain for dehumidifier. As for rural crime, every house around my grandad's place had been broken into but he had several wolf/german shepard dogs.

[Bmi48219]

What you are contemplating is nice to have but essentially worthless. You will still need insurance for your guns and 'stuff'.

I agree with another poster about incorporating an underground range. That would be something you could use regularly and give a lot of enjoyment. I wish I had done that in the new place.

When you start talking about a secure, possibly hidden, underground vault, complete with adequate drainage, humidity control, ground water intrusion control etc the $$ start to add up quickly. None the less the idea sure sounds good. Yet as Don said you’ll only feel fully protected with insurance coverage.
An indoor range sounds great too. But that will require extending all the aforementioned features too, plus consideration for foolproof safety, ventilation and air quality concerns. Your insurance might have liability concerns too.

Still, who wouldn’t want such a setup?

[ascast]

Lots of good points. I like deception first. You may need to consider a building permit. That means everybody now knows about your underground blockhouse. Tell them it's a storm shelter. You might want to look into precast storm shelters or cement septic tanks. You might find a drop in solution and tunnel them in after the codes guy is gone. Otherwise, leave an old shot gun or 22 out where it can be grab easily. Not for you, but the thieves.

[Shawlerbrook]

Lot of great suggestions but I think Winger Ed nailed it. Most crooks are smash and grab and go for the low hanging fruit quickly.

[beemer]

I knew a guy that done time for B&E. He said they backed up to a basement garage door with a box truck .Ran upstairs and used a chainsaw to saw around a gun safe that was bolted to a wood floor. It dropped into the basement and they rolled it on the truck with a dolly and gone in five minutes. Four experienced guys and set up like clockwork. He said that if it had been bolted to a concrete floor that they wouldn't have bothered, would have taken too long.

He knew a couple guys that were helpers for some kind of service company. They knew what to look for and he would pay them for info and they would case the place. He also said that if he couldn't find it he couldn't steal it.

Funny thing, the last time I saw him he had started a moving company. I guess he couldn't help not hauling other people's stuff off. Often wondered how that worked out.

[Winger Ed.]

I knew a guy that done time for B&E.

Those folks are hard to catch, and when they are, they usually don't get much prison time.
Most don't want, or even own a gun.

Their crime is non-violent, and nobody gets hurt or even threatened.
An armed robber may get 20 years in a high security place.
Attacking safe with 2-3 million dollars worth of stuff in it, they may only get 3-4 years in a low security prison.