CCI shotgun primers

[dg31872]

First, I am glad that this section has been added to Cast Boolits. I think that most of my questions about cast in rifle and handgun have answers here, but I Have questions about reloading for shotgun.
I only shoot 20 gauge, and when I started to acquire shotgun components, I bought CCI primers, because that is what I use mostly with our other reloading. When I bought the Lyman reloading book, I was dismayed to see very few loadings for CCI primers.
So, does CCI closely corelate to another brand of Primer that has loadings listed? Safely
Thanks

[farmbif]

as you found in the reloading book the loads are exact recipes , depending on the brand of primer pressure in the shell can vary by 1000's of psi.
if you go to the alliant web site you can search loads by picking the primer, but like you found they are limited. I think you will find if you want to explore loading different shot shell loads its a real good thing to have a variety of different brand primers and different wads on hand. when you find a load that works real well for whatever your purposes are then buy in bulk the primers and wads needed if you can.
some people on this site have their own ways of creating shotshell loads, I'm not a ballistics engineer and I stick to exact recipes for loads from reputable sources--powder manufacturers, Lyman or Ballistics Products manuals. If you look closely though load books many times you find that there are loads say for example, this page of loads from Alliant.
https://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...eid=3&gauge=20

Federal 2 3/4" 20 gauge shells 7/8 oz lead load. the load using unique powder is varied by 1 grain of powder using 20s1 wad that changed velocity and pressure. so there is some flexibility but it is seriously limited compared to working up a metallic cartridge load.

[jim 44-40]

CCI 109
CCI 157
CCI 209
CCI 209M
CCI 209 SC
I don't think it's a good idea to use any other primer in place of a primer in load data.

[NSB]

I loaded and shot countless thousands of shotgun shells over the years and I’ve never seen a difference between CCI 209 primers and any other brand. I used what I had on hand or could get. I don’t substitute magnum for non-magnum though.

[farmbif]

supposedly the federal 209A is a hotter burning primer than the CCI 209M(magnum)

[dverna]

I cannot answer your question. There is data on CCI primers on the Hodgdon site.

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/rel...c=true&type=55

If that is not enough, this is what I would do. Select a load that runs around 9,500 psi using Win 209's. The SAAMI spec for 20 ga is 12,000 psi so you have plenty of safety margin. Use those loads for busting clays and low level loads. If you want to push performance for maximum hunting loads, get the correct components.

You cannot "read" shotshells like a rifle load. It is easy to get over pressure and not realize it.

[jim 44-40]

Lyman #2 edition has a few loads with CCI 209. What hull ,wad, and powder do you have on hand?

[toallmy]

It wouldn't hurt to send a email to CCI , just ask if they thought you could use their 209s interchangeable with Win or Rem primers .
The Lyman 5th edition has quite a few 20 gage loads with CCI 209s
What are you trying to put together ?

[dg31872]

I apologize for the delay. We are in central Texas, and we had to move our cattle to shelter because of a Blue Norther that just blew in.
Okay, I have Remington one-fired 2 3/4" and 3" shells.
I have Remington SP20 wads, Unique, Herco, and Longshot powers in supply.
I have a good supply of lead shot, Number 1, which is slightly smaller than BB. I bought it from Rotometals.
And of course CCI 209 primers and one box of Fiochetti primers.
I have a Lee# buckshot mould, for the larger stuff.
We live of a ranch with no close neighbors, and my intention is to use on things that need it.

[skeettx]

http://www.armbrust.acf2.org/primersubs.htm

[toallmy]

I think as long as you're CCI 209 primers are not magnums you're in great shape with the powders , hulls , wads you have on hand . Just don't try any barn burner loads .
Lighter loads I'd charge with unique , for a little more shot I'd go to Herco .
If you really need to smash stuff , that's where Longshot comes in , but it's a higher pressure so the primers make a huge difference .

[turtlezx]

with todays shortage your lucky to get anything let along be picky

[rbuck351]

I used to load shot gun quite a bit for bird hunting and loaded for 1 1/18 to 1 1/2 oz loads. I never was picky about what primer I used or wads either so long as wad height was right.

[jim 44-40]

Just trying to find a way for you to use up your CCI 209 primers.I know this is not a 1oz load but I found a load in a manual that uses 7/8 oz
CCI 209
17.0 grs Unique
Waa20 wad
Winchester HS or compression formed hull
1280 fps & 11,800 psi. I have some WAA20 wads you can have,if this helps

[JeepsAndGuns]

When I read through my lyman manual, it has a chapter about primers and showed two tests they did. They used the exact same load, with only the primer was the difference. They then listed the pressures.
the CCI was the "coldest" primer and produced the lowest pressures. The fed 209A, was the "hottest" and made the highest pressure.
I am not near my manual right now, but I am pretty sure it was cci, rem, win, then fed for the coldest to the hottest.
The way I interpreted it, was if there was a load for rem, win, or fed primers, I could use the cci primers and just lose a little chamber pressure and velocity.
This worked out good since I had a couple thousand of them at the time and nothing else. I found some more at a gun show and bought them, so I can continue to shoot.
Now if there was a load for cci primers, and you subbed in a fed 209A, that would not be a good thing.

But remember, be smart, do your own research, make your own decisions, and take everything you read on the internet with a grain of salt.

[megasupermagnum]

First, I am glad that this section has been added to Cast Boolits. I think that most of my questions about cast in rifle and handgun have answers here, but I Have questions about reloading for shotgun.
I only shoot 20 gauge, and when I started to acquire shotgun components, I bought CCI primers, because that is what I use mostly with our other reloading. When I bought the Lyman reloading book, I was dismayed to see very few loadings for CCI primers.
So, does CCI closely corelate to another brand of Primer that has loadings listed? Safely
Thanks

This is nothing against you dg31872, but what exactly are you glad about? The "casting and reloading for shotguns" section has been around forever. I'm baffled why there is a new separate "loading for shotguns" section added now, I just found it today. I just have to ask, why would someone feel better asking about primers here, than in the casting and reloading shotguns section?

The book answer is you can't substitute. What CCI primer do you have? I'm going to assume it is a CCI 209, and NOT a CCI 209M. You will find very minimal data for a CCI 209. The big problem is CCI primers have been all over the map. It wasn't until Federal bought CCI that they finally settled down to the CCI 209 and CCI 209M we see today. CCI 209's today are not the same as CCI 209's from the 80's. Incidentally, the year Federal bought CCI, as far as I can tell, is the year they discontinued the Federal 209, and started making the new CCI 209, as well as being about the time the Federal 209A came out. Note that the Federal 209 and Federal 209A are completely different. The Federal 209 and new CCI 209 are almost identical. It would be no surprise to me that they are one and the same.

Use the following opinion at your own risk.

So now to helping you. If you have a CCI 209M, then data is limited, but you do see it come up often enough, mostly in hunting loads. The standard CCI 209 is rarer, but you should be able to find basic trap loads. If you have an older loading manual, you will find all kinds of Federal 209 listed. I swap CCI 209's for these now discontinued primers. That's exactly why I buy CCI 209's. Alternatively Federal 209A's are considered the strongest, and will generally produce the highest pressures. If you use data for a Federal 209A, and use your CCI 209's pressure will drop somewhat, but it should produce a safe load as long as you aren't trying far reduced loads. Bloopers are dangerous business, far more than over pressure. A Winchester 209 is kind of a middle ground, and would be a better one to go off of.

[dg31872]

Thanks to all who helped.
That is why I come to this site to learn and share what I can. I now have a better idea about what to do.

Mega, what am I glad about? I guess that I am just a happy guy.
I have read some of your postings about shotguns and appreciate your experience. And there is nothing wrong with that.

I have CCI 209 primers. Bought them at the end of 2020.

[6pt-sika]

I'll not argue whether you follow given load data verbatum or whether you choose to maybe switch a primer etc .

I will however say I've perused plenty data over the years and have loaded I'd say several hundred thousand shotgun shells 8 gauge all the way down to the 410 . Only ones missing for me are 24 and 32 gauges .

Anyway I'm kinda lax when it comes to primers in the past when things were shall we say normal I ONLY used WIN 209's as well as CCI 209M's for muzzle loaders . Since the stupidity and the crud came about I pretty much use REM CCI WIN and Chedditte primers interchangably . I've also used 1,000 of the Federal 209A's but that was a brick someone traded me I normally wouldn't purchase them .

Most of my loads are not balls to the wall hot and with that being said generally the load data I've used is within a 1/2 grain of whatever powder charge I'm using . I will say the factory loaded pigeon ring loads I shoot in matches are a good bit warmer than anything I load as well as faster . But in the ring most shoots are 15 birds or 30 shots however you wanna look at it .

Anyway the primer thing is this . If you can get exact components for the data you have thats 100% correct . On the other hand if you wanna shoot a lot more and I do you can "adapt" loads within reason . Some folks will want to send test loads to Armbrust and nothings wrong with that . I'll refrain from saying my own outlook or perogative . But I ain't planning on going anywhere out of this world and hope I can get up to 3/4's of a million shells loaded/shot before they put a match to my corpse and plan to keep on going as I have been for the last forty years

[Grayone]

I loaded and shot countless thousands of shotgun shells over the years and I’ve never seen a difference between CCI 209 primers and any other brand. I used what I had on hand or could get. I don’t substitute magnum for non-magnum though.

^^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^^
This is what I have done also.

[Old Caster]

^^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^^
This is what I have done also.

This is what I do too but I only load trap, skeet and 5 stand loads on my 9000. If you will check, you will see that the MEC loaders and anything else with the same bar loading system might vary the load as much as a grain and a forth from shot to shot which is probably more than different primers. If I would check it enough, it might be even worse. I use what I can get and recently it has been Cheddite and the last time it was Nobel. The Nobel primer was larger so they had to be used in those cases until they were retired. I never notice any difference and if there was, trap and e stand matches would be very revealing because of lead difference. I am around so many forever trap shooters that never divide things up like this. If you are shooting the hottest hunting loads you can then it might make a difference and I certainly would use a different powder measure.