Hollywood Turret Adjustment

[4RT]

Hollywood Reloaders

Hope you can help figure out a Senior Turret before I’ve pulled all my hair out. If these downloads work, it’s this one:


Press is in good shape. The problem is this: After lubricating the turret, it works great. Spins easy, locking into each station with authority…until used to reload. Then it's difficult to turn. Maybe the force of pushing up on the turret (sizing/expanding/crimping) throws something off.

Lubrication: I’ve tried light weight oil, light weight grease, thick grease, 10W-30 motor oil, and even powdered graphite. Lubing...spring, ball bearings, top, bottom and inside diameter of turret. Is there a proper kind, amount and placement of lube?

Top nut and Allen set screw adjustment: Screw down top nut until it stops, back off slightly and tighten Allen lock screw. If the turret’s difficult to turn, back off a little and retighten lock screw. Adjust until the turret spins easy. Is there a better SOP?

Another question: How old is this press? There are NO markings (e.g., “Hollywood Gunshop”) cast on this press.

Thanks for any time you spend helping to sort this out!
Art

[super6]

Welcome 4rt! I spent some time with my 12 station in the last week or to trying to figure out how my press wanted to be used and came away thinking this, each station is used as a batch station. Do not move until your ready to do the next process. Set your dies up going counterclockwise. When you loosen the lock screw and go ccw it will loosen on its own. When at the next batch station lock the allen screw down. REPEAT at every station. I am no expert at hollywood turrets just what works for me. I did find that I had to tighten the cap down by hand before I set the screw after a couple stations. Hope this helps! Nice press buy the way.

[4RT]

Thanks, super6! That would work. And my other press is a single stage anyway. Can't help but believe there must be a way though. Rex Roach on YouTube has one he used to reload a bunch of 32-20. It seemed to keep rotating fine for him. One of those little issues you want to eventually overcome...
Thanks for the kind words about my press. Blessed to have it!

[super6]

I was kinda waiting for the other hollywood users to chime in, shims under the cap screw might be an option. Will most likely ware a groove in your collectable.

[Hollywood_Goon]

Something is causing the turret cap to tighten up or bind. Adjust the cap and then use a set of feeler gauges and see what the gap is between the cap and the turret plate. Put a sizing die in the turret and size a casing. Rotate the turret one place and recheck the gap between the cap and the turret plate. You could get some plastigauge to check the clearance between the turret opening and the end of the tube. The place I'm talking about is were the turret plate goes over the tube. You might want to check that area for clearance.

Just thinking out loud here on this question - are you sure your adjusting the turret plate down enough on the tube..?? Try this...secure the press on your bench. Remove the cap from the top of the press and completely unscrew the lock screw from the cap. Also remove the ball from the top of the tube. Take the cap and screw it back on the press. Screw it down till it locks the turret plate. Take a set of feeler gauges and check under the turret plate were it bottoms out and on top were the cap and the turret plate will touch. There should be zero gap top and bottom. Then unscrew the cap and put the ball back on top of the tube. Then screw the cap back on the tube until it bottoms out. Then unscrew the cap until you can get .002 thousands feeler gauge between the cap and the turret plate. You could try .003 thousands but I think that would be too loose. Leave the feeler gauge underneath the cap. Screw the lock screw back into the cap and try not to move the cap while your tightening that lock screw. Remove the feeler gauge and check several places under the cap to ensure you didn't tighten down the cap any further while tightening the lock screw. Rotate the turret plate back and forth both ways to ensure the turret plate moves smoothly. Line back up on the sizing die again and size a casing. Rotate the turret plate and check to see how smooth it rotates. If it's binding, then you got a problem with the cap and the turret plate.

I use Mobil 1 10w30 motor oil on my Hollywood Senior Turrets presses and I use grease and motor oil on my Universal presses.

To determine if you have a Gun Shop press or a MM Engineering press. Look at the machine key way groove on the back of the tube. If it's a square groove, it's a Gun Shop press. If it's a v-groove and uses a ball to ride in the v-groove, then it's a MM Engineering press. The key way is secured with a nut. I have both keys ways, so if you need a picture just let me know.

[4RT]

Thanks for your detailed post, Hollywood Goon. Not sure I’ve understood everything but here are some findings:

The gap between the cap and turret is pretty much zero. With spring and ball bearing in play, there’s upward force applied at the front of the turret. They seem to mate about as close to perfect as could be manufactured. Also, when unscrewing the cap, the turret follows it up as its unscrewed because of suction between the oily nut and turret. Tried it without lube. That didn’t work well.

With spring and both ball bearings removed, and the cap nut screwed down all the way, there's zero measurable gap between the cap and turret, or tube shoulder and turret. When screwing the cap off or on, you can tell that it’s not perfectly round. It would probably be pretty difficult to cast a part like that perfectly. However, all mating surfaces (cap-turret and turret tube shoulder) seem to be machined and mate perfectly.

When the turret's working well, I can fit a 0.0025 feeler gauge on the underside where the spring and ball bearing push up. None fit in the back. Any tighter and there's too much drag. This happens no matter the lubrication used, and the motor oil tried is Mobil 1 10w30.

Bottom line, it seems with force applied to the underside by sizing, expanding or whatever, the lube between cap and turret causes them to stick to each other. It's like having two pieces of glass, with oil and grease between them.

Checked the press and it has a V-groove in the back. Never heard of MM Engineering reloading presses and can't find anything online. Did they copy Hollywood Gun Shop's design…with Hollywood’s blessing? Or vice versa?

Thanks again for your help!

[Kevin Rohrer]

From the looks of it, this is a later one, built by M&M Engineering in the late 80s or 90s. They originally used parts bought from Hollywood, then may have fabricated their own. Pressman and Lubedude know more than I about Hollywood and M&M.

As far as lubing the turret, I use Breakfree everywhere.

I took the turret off mine to check it. Confirm that you have a ball bearing in the center of the post under the turret, and a smaller, spring-loaded one in a detent on the front of the post. The turret rides on the larger, center ball bearing, and movement is inhibited by the small one. I can post a pic if you need it.

As for your binding problem, you are aware that when you move the turret, you should feel the resistance of the ball bearing compressing the spring and moving down into the detent?

[Hollywood_Goon]

Thanks for your detailed post, Hollywood Goon.

No problem

The gap between the cap and turret is pretty much zero. With spring and ball bearing in play, there’s upward force applied at the front of the turret. They seem to mate about as close to perfect as could be manufactured. Also, when unscrewing the cap, the turret follows it up as its unscrewed because of suction between the oily nut and turret. Tried it without lube. That didn’t work well.

Both of mine does the same thing as you described.

With spring and both ball bearings removed, and the cap nut screwed down all the way, there's zero measurable gap between the cap and turret, or tube shoulder and turret. When screwing the cap off or on, you can tell that it’s not perfectly round. It would probably be pretty difficult to cast a part like that perfectly. However, all mating surfaces (cap-turret and turret tube shoulder) seem to be machined and mate perfectly.

My caps are not round either on both of my Hollywood Senior Turret presses. One is perfectly flat with the turret when you are screwing it down. The other has a .001 thousands gap. But If I continue screwing it down, it will force the cap to tilt and then it will bottom out. The reason it will bottom out is cause of the threads on the tube shaft. I never noticed this before, so when I get some time. I'm going to fix this. This isn't causing me any issues, but I want the tube shoulder, the turret plate, the bottom of the cap and the locking screw to be on the same plain. That way, when I screw the locking nut down into the cap, the dish on the end of the locking screw will mate/match the dish in the top of the tube. And the gap will be the same between the cap and the turret regardless of were I put a feeler gauge under the cap.

When the turret's working well, I can fit a 0.0025 feeler gauge on the underside where the spring and ball bearing push up. None fit in the back. Any tighter and there's too much drag. This happens no matter the lubrication used, and the motor oil tried is Mobil 1 10w30.

Same here except I only have .001 thousand gap at the spring and ball location. On the back side and it's touching. Right now, I'm quarantine but once I'm able to return to work, I'm going to get mine resurfaced. On the inside of the cap is a machined surface, that is were I'm going to have the machinist index off of to re-surface mine. I might even get him to re-surface the top of my turret plate.

Bottom line, it seems with force applied to the underside by sizing, expanding or whatever, the lube between cap and turret causes them to stick to each other. It's like having two pieces of glass, with oil and grease between them.

Try using less lubricate. I only put a surface coat on mine.

Checked the press and it has a V-groove in the back. Never heard of MM Engineering reloading presses and can't find anything online. Did they copy Hollywood Gun Shop's design…with Hollywood’s blessing? Or vice versa?

MM Engineering is the same company as Hollywood Engineering. It was operated by Joe and Margaret Mueller. The story about how they started machining and assembling these presses is as good guess as mine.

Thanks again for your help!

Your welcome. By the way...

[4RT]

Thanks, Kevin. I appreciate your comments!
Art

[Hollywood_Goon]

One thing I forgot to mention. I had a ball that the chrome was coming off of. It still worked but it increased the pressure it took to rotate the turret. Once I replaced the ball with a new one, it was really smooth to rotate.

[4RT]

Thanks again, Hollywood Goon, Kevin and Super6,
Possibly, my turret lubrication is too much and/or too thick. I'll clean everything and try something thin, like Breakfree or Ballistol.
Can't figure out how the large, top ball bearing could make a difference in anything except how far down the cap screws. Once the set screw's tightened, there is no movement in the ball bearing or large cap. The bearing under my cap is smooth and shiny.
I appreciate your time and advice,
Art

[Hollywood_Goon]

Possibly, my turret lubrication is too much and/or too thick. I'll clean everything and try something thin, like Breakfree or Ballistol.

I don't think the turret lubrication your using is the issue. You said spins easy, locking into each station with authority…until used to reload. That right there tells you the oil being used is not the issue.

Can't figure out how the large, top ball bearing could make a difference in anything except how far down the cap screws. Once the set screw's tightened, there is no movement in the ball bearing or large cap. The bearing under my cap is smooth and shiny.
Art

My picture above is a detent ball bearing that the chrome was coming off of. That ball rides on top of the spring in a detent hole that is machined/drilled on the shoulder of the shaft. That 1/4 inch ball bearing with the chrome coming off, caused it to be out of round, made my turret hard to rotate. Not saying that's your issue, just something to check.

[4RT]

Thanks again, Hollywood Goon. You're probably right, there's probably not much difference between one lube and another. After cleaning turret, tube and cap, I used a small amount of Breakfree. It seems to work as well as fancy (e.g., expensive synthetic) lubes. After resizing about 50 41 Mag cases, the turret still moves easily. Maybe because I didn't use too much this time. We'll see after working it more.
As far as ball bearings, both look smooth and shiny to the naked eye. At your recommendation, I'll examine the small one with magnification. If it's not pristine, it will be easy enough to replace. Thanks for that!

[4RT]

Finished reloading 50 45 Colt, and the turret locked up again. So I took it off, cleaned and lubed again (Mobil 1 this time). Worked great. Then did 50 41 Mag. Now it's stuck again. Ball bearings shiny. Other thoughts on what might cause the turret to seize up from reloading so few rounds?

[Devon]

I wander if the direction you are turning the turret is causing it to progressively tighten?
Just a thought....

[4RT]

Good thought, Devon, but I don't think so. It doesn't seem to matter which way and the top nut's locked down tight with the set screw. It's not turning. It seems to have something to do with the turret being pushed up and pulled down (e.g., during sizing, expanding, crimping). After taking it apart and lubricating, it will spin easily (and I do check it often) until it does some actual work. Thanks!

[Kevin Rohrer]

Maybe replace the small spring that the ball bearing rests on?

[4RT]

Maybe, Kevin. The ball bearing is held above the hole and if I push down on the front of the turret, it has a little play. So the spring's holding the ball bearing up a little anyway. I should probably replace it anyway, if I can find one, along with the ball bearings, just to eliminate those possibilities.
Thanks for chiming in again!

[Hollywood_Goon]

Maybe, Kevin. The ball bearing is held above the hole and if I push down on the front of the turret, it has a little play. So the spring's holding the ball bearing up a little anyway. I should probably replace it anyway, if I can find one, along with the ball bearings, just to eliminate those possibilities.
Thanks for chiming in again!

I just checked both of my turrets presses and both springs set just below flush in the detent hole. I didn't measure them, but to take a guess, I'd say there about .005 to .010 thousands below setting flush.

This has not been covered but I'll go ahead and bring it up. In the 1964 Handloader's Digest 2nd Anniversary Deluxe Edition, the author talked about stretching of the turret and that it could be controlled by using the 1/2" tie bar while bullet swaging. He stated in the article that Hollywood said, the bar keeps the stretching to less than .001 thousands. That statement right there says allot about how much power the Hollywood Senior Turret Press can muster even when using a 1/2" tie-bar for bullet swaging. If you don't know the history of your press, who's to say, the previous owners might have used your press to bullet swag and not used the 1/2" tie-bar, which would have stretched or warped your 7/8" thick turret plate. This might explain a little about some your troubles your having with your press. Just something to think about.

Also, your turret has 4 1-1/2"-12 to 7/8"-14 bushing adapters for loading shotgun shells. I know that the wad die has a wad pressure rod for seating wads that you can adjust up to 100lbs. The spring inside of the die is thick and heavy duty.

Maybe this can explain why your getting .0025 thousands clearance at the detent hole and zero clearance at the back side. If this is the case and your turret is warped. You can take and have the turret resurfaced top and bottom and re-drill the detent ball hoses. I can't remember what the detent holes are drilled at, it's 45 degree's or 60 degree's. The machinist doing the job will be able to tell you the degree and the depth. If you decide to resurface the turret, I'd get the cap resurfaced as well. That way, you know there surfaces are parallel or on the same plain.

If it's not too much trouble, keep us informed of what you decide to do or what you find out.

[4RT]

Thanks, Hollywood Goon! This is very interesting info. Never would have thought the thick turret could be warped or stretched by a mere human but, as you said, maybe the prior owner swaged bullets without the support bar in place. I don't think so because he included a bunch of miscellaneous shell holders and other items, but no swage dies. And, the swage bar came with the press. I'll try to assess the flatness of the turret somehow. If it appears warped, I'll need to find a machinist who can resurface it (and the cap).
Also, about 2/3 of the small ball bearing is above the top of the hole it sits in when the turret's off the press. When installed, the front of the turret's slightly elevated by the bearing while the back has nothing under it so it's in contact with the column. Maybe it needs to be screwed down tighter so there's less gap in the front. But any tighter than I've had it and it doesn't want to turn at all. Thinking out loud here...
Thanks again for this info and the Handloader's Digest thumbnail!