Marlin .357 hunting load help

[Lawyerman]

Guys, my two sons 8 & 10 use a Marlin '94 in .357 to hunt with. So far they have killed many hogs and two nice Mule Deer with it. Range is somewhat limited but they shoot the rifle well due to it's size (11" cutdown stock) and lack of recoil.

We have been using the Federal 180gr. castcore bullets but recently they have become very hard to find and very expensive. I am looking for a load to duplicate them. The rifle will shoot 2" at 50 yards all day and about 5" at 100 which is really their maximum range anyway.

I have the following moulds- Lyman Keith 173, plain base of course and the Rcbs 200.

Any suggestions? I know the Marlins can be a problem with cast and in the past in working up loads for my .35 Rems etc....it has been a struggle to get a good load. Any help appreciated.

[johnly]

Lil'gun is the performance powder to use in 357 lever guns.

A common feeding problem with 1984s in 357 is that many of the heavier bullets have a forward section that is a tad too long when loaded and crimped in 357 brass. The 180 gr. Rem JHP is a good example of this. Switching to 38 Sp brass often cures this problem.

The 180 gr. Lee bullet (that a group buy was done on about 12 months ago) would be a good choice, but lighter bullets might have less felt recoil.

John

[EDK]

Go to Glenn Fryxell's articles at lasc.net web site. You probably need a different boolit mould if you want to use 357 brass...or use 38 brass with 358429. There was a long discussion on another thread about legal problems of loading 357 level loads in 38 brass and someone "down the road" using your handloads; or maybe use +P+ marked brass?

I just got the RANCH DOG TLC 359 190 mould and it looks good, BUT it isn't going to work in 357 brass without adjusting the carrier, etc. Crabo has a mountain mould design that looks good, but it may require carrier modification also.

For now, I'm sticking to the LYMAN 358665...and watching for a SAECO #353/354 or#396/399. Someone might have a spare of the 359 180 group buy also. (There's a lot of stuff popping up on auctions now.)

[Bullshop]

I dont have a Marlin 357 right now but it aint for a lack of tryin on my part.
When I had one I got outstanding accuracy from the Lyman 215gn swc designed for the 357 max. In my rifle (pre- safty) it fed and shot good. I recently suggested it to a customer and he has informed me that it is too long from crimp groove to meplate to cycle through his rifle. It may be a simple matter of just triming brass back a bit but he didnt want that so went with a more conventional weight.
However if it will feed from your rifle I cant think of a better hunting boolit to be used for dear sized game from one of these sweet little rifles.
And to continue my quest to fill that gap I have for trade an as new guide gun in 45/70 I will trade for a marlin 357 mag.
BIC/BS

[GabbyM]

Just received a mold from Mountain mold a couple weeks ago. Designed it for the 357 mag Marlin rifles by holding the nose length to .300”. It's 170 grains gas checked with the same length inside case as my Saeco #354 180 gr. Cast from 1;20 or similar hardness they should expand dramatically from the 357 rifle. Bullets I've made so far have been from 50/50 water dropped. They shot good but never conducted expansion test.

[Lawyerman]

We have had great luck with the cast cores. Both boys made one shot kills on their mule deer last week a 7 and an 8 pointer. Ranges were short 40-60 yards but the little rifle flat knocked them on their butts! Complete penetration. I really do like how they shoot the little rifle.

I have been reading some of Paco Kellys stuff....as much as I want to use cast I may end up with the Remington 180.....It has a great reputation and is reasonably priced.

As far as .38/.357 loads I will say this....I have used Skeeter Skeltons load of 13.5 grains of 2400 in .38 cases with a 158 grain SWC for nearly 20 years. You won't find it in any load book but it darn sure does the trick in heavy Smith wheelguns!

[crabo]

I think a mold with a .300 nose would work really well if you don't want to do the carrier mod. I think that is about what the Lee 158 and the Lee 125 rfn have, and they feed really well. The Lee 158 rfn is bevel based and I can't get it to shoot very well at all. In fact, it shot so bad, I put it somewhere and can't find it.

The carrier mod isn't hard to do. I did the mod because I wanted to shoot different boolits without having to trim brass and then keep them separate. The Saeco 353, and the 354, will not feed without the carrier mod or trimmed 357 mag cases. My boolit has a .325 nose and a 73% meplat with a gascheck and is 180 grains in weight. I am using speed greeen lube and sized to .359. I have not tried it on game, but it should do the job.

One of the things Bass Akward told me was that you can get a gas checked boolit to shoot a good group quicker, with less effort, than a plain based one. I started with the gc and am planning on doing a plain based one next. The bevel based boolits have never shot as well for me, in any of my guns, as plain based or GC boolits. I hold my boolits to high expectations.

Another trick I learned from bass is to coat my boolits with LLA after I size and lube them. I have found that while I am breaking in a new gun for cast, if I coat the boolits with LLA, it helps keep the leading non existant. At some point I will run some tests with and without the LLA to see if I still need it, or if the loads are fine without it.

I could not get the Saeco 353 to shoot anywhere near as good as my own Mountain Mold boolit. I measured some of the boolits dropped from the 353 and the front drive band was smaller than the rear base band. I think this could affect accuracy quite a bit.

Lawyer man, if you want some cheap shooting for your boys and yourself, try the Lee 125 rfn with 6 grains of Universal. It shoots like a house afire at 50 yards.

Imashooter2 did some testing on my boolit here.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=40202

I got better results than he did and I am sure it was due to my setup. Right now I have a 4.5x14 Luepold and a lace on cheekpiece on my gun. I use a front rest and a rear bag under the buttstock. I put the front rest right in front of the lever. I could not shoot the groups I do with iron sights. My goal right now is to eliminate shooter error as much as possible. When I finish testing my loads at 100 yards, I will take the scope off and put my tang sight back on. When I miss then, I will know it is shooter error and not the gun or loads fault.

I intend to try some Lil'gun after I get my chronograph for Christmas.

I have not had any luck getting the swc design to feed from the tube.

[Lawyerman]

I read the Fryxell article and was really looking hard at the Lee 160 "cowboy" bullet. He indicated that it ran well in the Marlins but like you seemed to say that accuracy was only so so especially when loaded "warmly". I am looking at "warm" loads as these are deer killers for my boys.....I have oodles of "plinking" loads but I'm looking specifically for something like the 180 cast cores.....a 100 yard .357 deer load.

I did find that the Cast Cores are apparently made by Cast Performance for Federal. I went and looked at some of their stuff....VERY expensive I thought- $27 for 100 bullets. Heck, I can get the Remington jacketed 180s' for $16 a hundred! Why would I mess with cast in the Marlin at that point?

I don't really have a problem with doing the carrier mod though. I need to find somewhere where it is pictured and give it a try. I understand vaguely what is involved but pictures are always nice.

[NHlever]

I haven't used any 180 grain cast bullets in my .357 carbines yet, but I do have some experience with 180 gr. J-word bullets. Both the Remington 180HP, and the Hornady 180gr XTP bullets have shot very well in my carbines over either H110, or Lil Gun. For a "warm" cast boolit load in .357 rifles, my best luck so far is with the Lyman 358156 gas checked bullet. It can shoot very well indeed over warm charges of 2400, or H110. Brian Pearce has used that boolit for deer, and reports good luck with it. He has also used the hollowpoint version with good results. I haven't had the opportunity to try it on game that large myself. Unfortunately, NH isn't the most game rich area of the country.

[Cayoot]

I don't really have a problem with doing the carrier mod though. I need to find somewhere where it is pictured and give it a try. I understand vaguely what is involved but pictures are always nice.

I'll second that request! I would really appreciate some guidence in doing that modification!

[Lawyerman]

If you follow the link in Crabos post above it will take you to another post where there is a hot link for the mod..

[Cayoot]

Got it! Thanks Lawyerman!

[crabo]

Other things I did to get my rifle to shoot good was....

A Wild West Trigger

Firelapped the barrel with LBT material

Slicked up the action

1 piece firing pin