Ever had one of those days..

[singleshotbuff]

Ever had one of those days at the loading bench that, in spite of loving this hobby, was just a PITA?

Here's my saga of trying to fireform 303 British brass to fit the GENEROUS chamber in my Enfield.

I have 50 pieces of gleaming new Winchester 303 brass that I'd like to make last a while. This brass isn't cheap (but I am) and is only available locally by driving nearly an hour. The chamber on my Enfield is so oversized that new brass or factory loads blow the shoulder forward a bunch and flatten primers on the first firing.

So, after conferring with the wise men (or wiseguys) in the chat room, I decided to firefrom the brass to my chamber on the first firing by seating 180gr jWord RN bullets (which I already had on hand) into the rifling. This will (hopefully) hold the casehead against the bolt face and allow the shoulder to move FORWARD, hopefully eliminating the flattened primers and the start of a casehead seperation.

So, I full length sized all 50 pieces of brass in my (I thought) RCBS die. I primed 10 pieces, then charged them with 41grs of IMR-4320, then prepared to seat my bullets extra long so that they contacted the rifling. Here's where the fun began.

The first bullet I seated nearly fell through the case neck. ON A F/L SIZED CASE. What could be wrong?

Did I grab the wrong bullets? Nope, I measured the bullets, .3105" (nominally supposed to be .311"). So I grabbed a case and tried seating a bullet by hand. A VERY loose slip fit in the neck of NEW BRASS. This ain't good.

After several minutes of trying to figure out how I screwed this up, I finally decided it would be wise to look at the dies (which I aquired used of course).

First of all, I discovered that, although they looked exactly like RCBS dies, they were in fact made by LACHMILLER, no problem so far. Then, I measured the expander ball on the decapping stem. It miked .310". A BIT loose for a .3105" bullet. At least I knew what the problem was.

Not knowing exactly what to do, and wanting to load ammo NOW, I pulled out my OLD set of RCBS 7.62X54R dies. They looked EXACTLY the same as the lachmiller 303 dies, so I measured the expander ball. It miked about .307", which I kinda suspected since I have used these same .3105" bullets successfully in my Rooskie A LOT. I thought, since the dies looked identical, that I could just swap the expander balls, resize the case necks, and be back in business. Of course, the decapper rod in my RCBS 7.62 die had been in there for a LONG time, so I had to go all the way down to the garage, put it in my vise, and remove it with pliers. Should fit the other die now.

Nothing doing. The thread pattern, where the expander ball screws on to the decapping rod, was different on the dies sets. Not a LOT different, but enough to eliminate interchangabilty. On to plan B.

I wound up putting the deacpping rod (with the .307" expander ball) BACK into the Rooskie die to be able to neck size and expand the 303 cases (the neck diameters are very close, the Brit is just longer). But, since my brass was already primed, I needed to raise the expander ball/decap pin in the die, to keep from punching out the newly installed primers.

In order to RAISE the decapping pin assembley, I had to use a pair of pliers and a small flat screw dribver to loosen the rod. I have a perfectly sized screw driver that I keep on my loading bench JUST FOR ADJUSTING RCBS DIES. Of course, I couldn't find the damn screw driver on my cluttered bench, so after looking for it for 20 minutes, I had to go BACK to the garage and look for another 20 minutes for a screw driver that would fit.

I FINALLY got the die adjusted and neck sized and expanded 10 pieces of brass. I loaded those rounds up with the bullets seated LONG, and I hope to FINALLY fireform some brass tomorrow.

What a pain

SSB

[Buckshot]

...............You bet. Been there and done that. Wife comes home from work and asks what I've gotten done all day. I say, Not a darn thing. I've probably walked 10 miles and handled every tool I own at least once. But now I'm just sitting here having a beer to relax and trying to remember what started it all.

..................Buckshot

[45 2.1]

Load a low powered lead boolit plinking load in those brand new cases, spray them with furniture wax or simply lube the case lightly with resizing lube and go fire them. You will get perfectly fireformed cases. The wax or lube won't let the case sieze in the chamber and it will slide back to full headspace while letting the shoulder blow all the way forward. Remember to load a light load and to degrease the chamber after fireforming that brass.

[Firebird]

Doesn't the rim on those 303 cases determine proper headspace?
I've always been told that if you put a piece of scotch tape on the base of your cartridge, and can still close the bolt, then you have excessive headspace and shouldn't fire the gun. I can understand how on a rimmed case that the shoulder may not be where you would want it, but the case shouldn't be able to move around in the chamber, the rim should be held tightly between the bolt and barrel face.

[leftiye]

Probly just like belted magnum headspacing, ie. it is better to headspace on the shoulder than the belt (rim). This keeps the shoulder from being set back with each sizing, and then being blown forward again with each firing. This only works as long as you don't set the shoulder back when you size each time (poorly adjusted dies) = you should neck size or partial size only, and leave the shoulder alone.

[35remington]

Couldn't you use the .303 Lachmiller die without the expander? The resultant inside neck diameter will be small but tight enough to grip the bullet. If it's a little too small you could open it up with a M die expander to the right size. I'm guessing you have this already for cast bullets in the .303, so use it and all should be well.

[Tom Herman]

My latest horror story is reloading the .45 Long Colts in my Dillon RL-550...
For some reason, the !*!%^$@#!*! primers were seating at an angle and actually producing some high primers.
I still don't know why the priming arm was bent off the usual 90 degrees, but I solved the problem by filing the primer arm so the surface was parallel horizontal.
That solved it, now I'm turning out primed rounds like I have been all along.
Casting also produces its share of headaches. Trying to figure out how to cast the .455 Webley RNHB was simply maddening, but now that I know the secret, it's relatively easy.
It seems nothing I do is easy, but it's a wonderful feeling when you overcome the obstacles in your way.

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

Ever had one of those days at the loading bench that, in spite of loving this hobby, was just a PITA?
SSB

[JeffinNZ]

Don't go wasting any sort of bullet for fireforming your .303 brass. I use 12-15gr of Green Dot topped of with polenta. Bell the mouth of the case to centre in the chamber neck. Lube the brass so it will slide in the chamber and let her rip.

Once done don't full length size again unless you REALLY have to. Lee collet dies are the way to go.

[Pitmaster]

I bought my first press, a Lee Classic Turret from Kempf's Gun Shop, for 9mm. I took it home set up and tried loading. Bullets didn't work right, press didn't seem right, got on the net asked advice, followed it. Thought I had the wrong bullets and called Ranier (great service), problem not solved. Went back to the gun shop asked Kempf for advice. He suggested a couple of things in his charming way. No help. Experienced friend took a look and we spend several hours and couldn't figure out the problem. I tried loading about 150 bullets without success. I was able to set up a .45 die with no problem so it wasn't me. Called Lee and tried their suggestions. Didn't work. Called them back they said to send the dies back. Sent dies back. They called and said the dies were 9mm Makarov vs. Luger. When I asked for 9mm Kempf gave me Makaro instead of Luger. The only good thing is I learned a heck of a lot about problem solving and reloading. Out shipping and componemets (primers, powder) for about 150 rounds plus the time to pull the bullets and lost a few of them and some brass. GRRRRRR

[Freightman]

Her is how I cured my head space problem, I ordered 100 30/40 Krag brass from Graff's and ran them through the sizer, crammed them in the chamber to mark the chamber length trimmed .002 short of mark, primed , charged with 8gr Unique, topped with filler and 150g boolit went to range and fire formed. If you will measure the rim on the Winchester 303 brass and the R-P 30/40 brass you will find the Krag brass to be .004 thicker, now I have lengthened the neck and moved the shoulder forward and a thicker base, all together has cured my head space problem. Caution you have to do this for each rifle and have to keep the brass separate, and never full length size again.

[redneckdan]

Expand the kneck to .358 caliber or somthing like that, .338 might even do. Then size back down with the full length die until it just barely chambers. In effect you are creating a small shoulder that will holder the cartridge in place for the first firing so that the whole shoulder can form to the chamber dimmensions.

[singleshotbuff]

The 180gr RN bullets I tried to use for fireforming WOULDN'T REACH THE RIFLING, but I did manage to fix my chamber problem in the Enfield.

I loaded the cases with 12grs of Bullseye, then filled them with toilet paper. I went out in the backyard, OILED EACH CASE with RemOil from a spray can as I chambered them, then fired em skyward.

It worked very well, no flattened primers, no casehead seperation ring. The fired brass loads very well. Since I haven't bought new 303 dies yet (I'm cheap) I just neck size the brass with the Lachmiller dies, with the expander ball removed.

On to the next project.

SSB

[Bret4207]

Doesn't the rim on those 303 cases determine proper headspace?
I've always been told that if you put a piece of scotch tape on the base of your cartridge, and can still close the bolt, then you have excessive headspace and shouldn't fire the gun. I can understand how on a rimmed case that the shoulder may not be where you would want it, but the case shouldn't be able to move around in the chamber, the rim should be held tightly between the bolt and barrel face.

Headspace isn't determined like that. It's all a matter of adjusting things, as the original poster was doing. You can stick 10 thicknesses of tape on a case and have it fit a chamber and still adjust things to be safe.

[Alvin in AZ]

SSB, your story sounds like everything I ever worked on. LOL :)

If it were easy, everyone would be fixing stuff.

They don't, because it ain't?
<shrug>

Alvin in AZ