First real problem

[megasupermagnum]

I'm new to bullet casting, however, I had been casting trouble free for some time. I just used whatever lead I could find, never worried too much about anything. So I decided to really take the plunge, and bought another Lee pot, this one a 20 pound bottom pour, some "custom" molds, and lead from rotometals. Today I decided to try out the new lee pot for the first time, and wanted to try Lee REAL .50 320 grain bullets for the muzzleloader. I had casted these in the past with good results, accurate too, however, they were too hard, and as a result, very difficult to load. Lee recommends pure lead for these, so that's what I used. Pure lead from rotometals. I plugged in the pot on max heat, added lead, and once melted, I put in a bit of beeswax for flux. I see a lot of people say to drop in a match to stop the smoke, I just walked off and let it smoke for 5 minutes. I was casting on heat setting 6, but do not have a thermometer. After the mold got hot, I quickly ran out 50 good bullets, no problems. I decided to try a new Accurate mold, a 770 grain 12 gauge bullet. When I came back, I noticed the top of the lead was covered in an orange/yellow powder. I let it be as I tried to cast some shotgun slugs. I was not getting a good result, and the nozzle was plugging up. I skimmed the top as best I could, and fluxed it again, but the nozzle was plugging too fast to get a good pour. I used wire to clear it, but it wouldn't even go 5 seconds. I turned the pot on max heat. The lead just kept building up this powder ****. By the end I had casted over 100 bad shotgun slugs, and skimmed probably 3 pounds of the powder. I skimmed it good, and poured ingots as fast as I could. When it was empty, and scrapped the sides of the pot, but its really stuck to the sides. I can't find anything about it in the Lyman casting book or online. I would really appreciate some help.

Here are some of the better shotgun slugs, you can see it looks like some of that powder is actually in the lead.

[Grmps]

You can not trust the heat settings on most casting pots. I have 2 identical pots, 1 set at 2 runs 700 degrees the other at 9 for 700. Now they are all set on 10 and controlled with a PID. You don't want to super-heat lead, you get it to hot and you get hazardous fumes. It is not recommended to smelt in your casting pot. for smelting, a propane camp stove, and old pot (preferably cast iron) old muffin pans for ingots and a ladle for dipping.All new casting post should be cleaned / degreased before using but- Skimming off 3 # of powder "dross" would insinuate bad lead rather than just a dirty pot, which is hard to believe from rotometals. I would get a piece of the rotometal lead XRF'd. Others will weigh in that have experienced this and have more insight.

[RedRiver]

If you got good slugs right away, it may not be the lead. Could it be unburned bees wax?

You say you just let it smoke? When I flux mine, the smoke ignites and burns all the wax or flux off.

[RedRiver]

Or did the temp change and just give nasty looking slugs?

[megasupermagnum]

I casted a bunch of muzzleloader bullets first, and the problem started about 30 minutes into casting. When I switched to the shotgun slugs, it was so bad I could not even get one good one. I kept turning up the heat over time to try and get it to flow. The nozzle almost seemed to be cold, as a long drip would often get stuck hanging out after a pour. Do you think it was too hot? I did end up using a ton of beeswax for flux. I normally use about a small piece, maybe 1/2 the size of a marble. I ended up throwing a 1x1x2" chunk in as a last ditch effort. Mine just smokes a ton for about 5 minutes until it kind of burns off so I never bothered to try and burn it off. I just waited until it stopped. I'm not convinced it was beeswax residue. Here are pictures of the dust I skimmed out (probably 2-3 cups volume with some lead mixed in), the empty pot (was brand new this morning), and an ingot, with chunks of something on the bottom. The same stuff on the shotgun slugs. For the record, I was not smelting in this pot. I was using lead from Rotometals, which I was under the impression was ready to cast as is. It was supposed to be pure lead, cut into pellet "ingots".

[ascast]

I have seen this in "pure lead" roof flashing. The blue/gold color indicates very pure lead. As such, it will oxidizes faster than alloys. I was using a ladle and finally covered top melt with wood ash to keep the air off. I really don't see how your bottom pour is getting all crapped up. Try a steel spatula for stirring. Really scrape the sides and bottom. Don't try to flux that orange stuff back in. Take it off and discard or save for the next smelting batch. good luck

[BK7saum]

Your pot may be running hotter than you think. Purple ingots are a sign of too hot lead. The yellow powder is likely lead oxide from the overheated lead. The nozzle was probably stopped up from the lead oxide. Get a thermometer so you have a general idea on how hot the pot is running. Most cast pure lead at around 700-750. With wheelweights or lyman #2 etc, you can cast at a lower temp as the alloy melts at a lower temp.

[RedRiver]

I've had it happen. Just remembered. Was trying to make pure lead 9mm boolits. It clogged up bad. I just attributed it to the pure lead oxidizing too much. My temp was fine but it had the color of pure lead. The color isn't from the temp, in my experience, it's pure lead, that's what it does. It casts horribly.

[Chill Wills]

Your pot may be running hotter than you think. Purple ingots are a sign of too hot lead. The yellow powder is likely lead oxide from the overheated lead. The nozzle was probably stopped up from the lead oxide. Get a thermometer so you have a general idea on how hot the pot is running. Most cast pure lead at around 700-750. With wheelweights or lyman #2 etc, you can cast at a lower temp as the alloy melts at a lower temp.

I think this is the correct answer - times ten.

You likely overheated the lead by hundreds of degrees! Then you turned it up more thinking the plugged spout was due to cold, not knowing it was plugged with oxidation from the thick, hard crust.

You will recover! First, get a thermometer. Most casting alloys work well between 700 - 800 F Pb for muzzle loaders and slugs cast well 800 - to max 850F
You really do not want to go higher. As the metal gets hotter, oxidation happens faster and the chance of airborne vapors increase. As a rule, cast at the lowest temperature that produces good bullets.

[Chill Wills]

I meant to add, I think your first run of bullets worked because your pot had not been on too long, and with more time, when you came back, the heat was out of control (hot)!

[megasupermagnum]

Interesting. I think I'll clean my pot out with a wire brush and some solvent and try again. Is anyone using a cheap baking thermometer? I just can't see spending $50 on an RCBS one. I don't plan on doing a ton of pure lead casting, so hopefully that's all it is. I'll try some sawdust. I've been watching fortunecookie45lc on youtube for a long time, and I see he uses wood chips and sawdust a lot. I could see it doing good at keeping the air from the lead. With beeswax it just kind of burns off and that's that, it doesn't leave a coating or anything. My largest volume casting project soon will be with rotometals "recycled lead" until I get my lead stock built up. It looks to be similar in content to "electrotype" lead, and hopefully casts good.

[RedRiver]

I think my dad got ours from mcmaster.com for a decent price, like $20

[plainsman456]

I use a small amount of wood shavings on top of my lead pot when casting.

And you might need to add a small amount of tin or soldier to the mix for good fill out with pure.

I use lead from pipe joints and lead flashing for my muzzle loader,works well.

You might put all of the stuff back in the pot with some wood shavings and see if it improves.

[megasupermagnum]

Thanks for all the help. I found Tel-Tru LT225R made in usa 200-1000 degree thermometer.

[runfiverun]

too much heat.
if you do that you will oxidize an entire pot of alloy down to nuthin, as you found out.
put it all back in the pot and create an oxygen free barrier on the top and keep the heat closer to 725-750 this time.

the yellow orange color is super oxidized lead.
you might not be able to get it back with home type tools.

[megasupermagnum]

Are you saying the lead ingots I casted are not salvageable or my pot? I would think the casting pot should be ok, its coated in the stuff, but I don't think its anything a wire brush and some elbow grease can't solve. Lesson learned though. I'll put those lead ingots in my other "smelting" pot and see how they come out. The first picture on post 5 is just a pan I dump all the junk in. In picture 2 you can see the bottom of the pot is clean besides leftover lead, its just the bottom 1/2 of the sides of the pot.

On an unrelated note, I tried ramming the muzzleloader bullets down (no powder) just to see how they load. They actually load too easy, as in once engraved, you could load them with one finger. Whether that's a good thing or not, I guess I'll have to try them at the range.

[TexasGrunt]

I cast a LOT of pure lead. As long as I keep it around 750° I don't have any problems.

[jdfoxinc]

The yellow is lead sulfate. It used to be use as a fabric dye. You can remelt your ingots in your Lee. Do monitor the temp. I cast muzzle loading or Joes at 825ferrenheight commercially.

[Walter Laich]

here are some thermometers:

NOE: $27 http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...products_id=30

digital meter $9 + K probe $3 = $12 for the whole thing

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HYELEC-MS650...3D231601563137

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-K-Type-T...AAAOSwa~BYRjgE

[megasupermagnum]

Casting went a lot better today. I cleaned out the pot with vinegar and a wire brush. It came off easy. Today I was casting with Rotometals "recycled lead" which should be close to electrotype. With my new thermometer I realized my pot is HOT. I was casting on 3 and the lead was right around 750 degrees. 2 is the lowest setting oddly, and 9 the highest. I guess the guys at LEE don't understand the whole 1-10 thing. I used sawdust, most likely all pine, and it seemed to do well. No oxidation at all. My only problem was it was quite windy, and would blow the sawdust off after a while. I might have to cut up a cover for my pot. I casted about 200 bullets from my brand new mold for a 327 federal "keith" bullet, about 25 of those 770 grain shotgun slugs, and did a few .735" round balls for the heck of it before I ran out of time. All went well. I turned my pot up to 5 to see what would happen, and I turned it down when the metal was closing in on 950 degrees. I was casting on 6 last time, and ended up at 9 by the end when I was having issues. That lead was far too hot.

Thanks everybody!