Brass bulge question

[truthisdiscovered]

Hey folks... I hope this is the right place to post this question, if not please direct me to the proper location.

A friend gave me 300 rounds of Hornady HP/XTP 250g .452 jacketed bullets. I found a few load options for loading these in a .45 auto a figured I'd give them a try.

The first half dozen produced a case bulge with new brass. I placed them in the magazine of my Ruger P 90 and of course... they would not feed.

The bullet measured .452, the same as other 230g jacketed RN bullets I've been using with no problem... but still the Hornadays all produced the bulge.

Any advice?

Truth

[dipstick]

Is the bullet the only thing you have changed other than the powder? Is it the same lot of brass that you have been loading other jacketed bullets in and did you expand the case mouths the same?

[bouncer50]

Hey folks... I hope this is the right place to post this question, if not please direct me to the proper location.

A friend gave me 300 rounds of Hornady HP/XTP 250g .452 jacketed bullets. I found a few load options for loading these in a .45 auto a figured I'd give them a try.

The first half dozen produced a case bulge with new brass. I placed them in the magazine of my Ruger P 90 and of course... they would not feed.

The bullet measured .452, the same as other 230g jacketed RN bullets I've been using with no problem... but still the Hornadays all produced the bulge.

Any advice?

Truth

If the bullet is seated deeper in the case it can cause a bulge with a heavy weight bullets then 230 grains.

[44man]

Yes, I would say the bullet is too long. Going deep enough to reach the brass taper.

[gray wolf]

.452 ?
45 a c p bullets mostly come in at .451 and scale out about 230 grains.
your bullets are bigger in diameter and going deeper in the cases = bulged cases.

Bet they are 45 colt bullets, with a crimp groove also.

Not saying your doing wrong, but if you go above speck you you can expect little differences.

[XDROB]

Didn't see if he checked COL? Seating too deep.

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[XDROB]

I have used Hornady's before in my 1911s. No problems. But have not used any heavier then 230gr. No 250s. If the dia is the same as a 230,then it has to be longer, no?

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[truthisdiscovered]

Thanks fellas, sorry I didn't get back until now. The wife had commandeered my computer for taxes this weekend.

Thanks for all of your comments, I did a little more experimentation over the weekend and believe that these Hornady HP/XTP 250g bullets are simply too long to load in an acp case.

I can start the seating process in small increments until they reach just south of the crimp groove with no bulge... but as soon as I go a little deeper right under the groove they all bulge.

I've tried w/ and w/o case expansion, w/ and w/o crimping, w/ both RN and FL seating die... w/powder, w/o powder all the same results.

The situation is a little strange because these measure only 1/2000th larger than standard RN (.452 versus .4515) and the bulged area is .473 which is the max case width listed in my data book. They all still will not feed stopping short by about the width of the case base.

I even tried seating one deeper than the crimp groove, and crimping the case, and it would feed but hang up when ejected.

Weird huh?

Truth

[bouncer50]

The 250 Grains are for the 45 Colt or as some call it 45 Long Colt. The common size is 451 for the 45 acp. With the lighter 185 or 200 grains its possible to use 452 size bullets. Another caliber the 380 acp if you try to use heaver bullets it will budge the case and not feed either.

[XDROB]

Aren't some plated bullets .452? Other then a cast one at .451. I believe I have both in my bullet supply. 45acp.

Also with 380s a lot of people think you can use some of the higher weight 9mm. NO. The 380 is 9mm short or 9mm Krag I think.



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[truthisdiscovered]

Both the 250g Hornady as well as the 230 RN ar both listed as .452 on the boxes. The 230 does however as I mentioned measure slightly under on average. They are both jacketed, but natural the 250g is slightly longer. In order to get them deep enough to comply with the COL, you must seat them deeper. That's where the bulging occurs.

The only reason I was trying to use them in .45 acp is they were free and I have a ton of acp brass.. I have a optional .45 Colt cylinder for a replica 1858 New Army Rem I bought last year. Anyone here have any advice about loading .45 LC for these replica guns? I would imagine one should be gentle.

Truth

Truth

[KYCaster]

.452 dia. + long bullet = bulge. The bullet is intended for 45 Colt, not 45ACP.

Are you trying to seat to a particular OAL? What happens if you seat a little longer...will they fit in the magazine?

As much as I despise the Lee FCD, maybe it will cure your problem.

Jerry

[Lloyd Smale]

yup a trip through a factory crimp die and id bet theyd shoot just fine

[truthisdiscovered]

So if I understand you... seat the bullet short of the cannelure (a place before the bulge occurs) and crimp w/ FCD. Then as long as the COL doesn't prohibit loading into the magazine... I'd be good?

If that's the case, why not simply crimp w/ the seating die?

Truth

[truthisdiscovered]

I think I just answered my own question. The carbide auto-pistol version has a resizing feature as the bullet is withdrawn from the die.

Cool...

Truth

[Lloyd Smale]

like was said. a 45acp was designed to shoot a 451 bullet. Seating and crimping a 452 bullet can leave the case bulged. Some guns feed them just fine like that some don't. If your gun doesn't a factory crimp die will iron out the bulges enough that they should feed. One other thing I see even more then this is 45acp bullets seated out to far. Ive got a number of 45acps and I don't want ammo loaded that wont shoot in each and every one of them so when I load a bullet like a semi wad cutter I seat so that just a tiny bit of the shoulder is sticking out. they might shoot a bit more accurately in one of two guns seated out a bit farther but first goal to me is ammo that goes bang and feeds perfectly every time. What some tend to overlook to is dirt. What feeds in your gun when its spanking clean wont necessarily run as well after you've shot 500 rounds through that gun. For that reason seating a bit deep and a factory crimp die are used by me for about all my semi auto pistol ammo. I hear all the time guys badmouthing factory crimp dies and I too wont use them in revolvers. But ive put a good many trophies from shooting ppc and bullseye on the shelf using ammo that was ran though a factory crimp die.

[truthisdiscovered]

Thanks for the tip Lloyd. I ordered a couple of these FCDs yesterday from Midway, and they'll be on my bench on Friday, I'll let everyone know how they turn out.

Thanks to everyone.

Truth

[Virginia John]

I concur with trying the factory crimp however, that doesn't always work. I also suggest that you try the plunk test in the barrel you will be shooting, Lets make sure it will chamber correctly. In fact you may even want to do it prior to and after using the factory crimp to be sure the setting is good.

[Tackleberry41]

I bought a bunch of them on sale a while back. They can be used in a 45 ACP case, you just have to ignore that crimp groove. The loaded FTX brass is cut short for it all to work right and come out to the right OAL, with special data in the Hornady book. I have been burning them up in my blackhawks 45ACP cyl, where OAL length isnt an issue. I just figured out where the base of a standard 230gr ACP round would be and seated the FTX to be the same, so I could use the load data unaltered. But the crimp groove is nowhere near the mouth of the case. Seating to that groove and they are seated way to deep, which will bulge your brass, and seriously raise your pressure.

I have a cannalure tool so can put the crimp groove where I need it if I want for use in unaltered 45 colt where the OAL can be pushed out like a blackhawk.

[scattershot]

The reason you are getting the bulge in your cases is because as mentioned, the bullet is intended for the 45 Colt. It is heavier, therefore longer, and when you try to seat it in the ACP case, which is tapered inside, it bulges the case.