Alternatives to Corbin Die$ ???

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Thanks I thought I kind of put him off

I've done a lot of communicating with Brian over the years, He is a great guy, it's takes a lot for him to get "put off". If you're anxious, go ahead and send him a second PM ...or a third PM. He does get behind in reading PMs on occasion, he'll understand.

[wonderwolf]

I'm pretty sure the ONLY way one will ever save money by reloading is sticking with just reloading one caliber and one or two powders appropriate dies and A good press. Anything beyond that and you end up where most of us are at. Remember we just compared the above to somebody shooting the same volume of factory. You can get .38 specials down to $.04 a round but that is after all your physical tooling is payed for. But lets admit it we are not here for the numbers game. we're here to have fun and learn and better ourselves.

RCE still has dies in the -$1000 range just FYI, I have a set of his .224" and .375" dies. Good stuff. His walnut hills press is great too. I have a friend who works in the metal industry make a reverse engineered copy of my press over 2 or 3 weekends. Saved him a lot of money and it looks great!

I'm a big proponent of doing things yourself, to both better yourself and those around you. The nice thing is that companies can charge whatever they want, its AMERICA we have that freedom. I've made my own swage dies and I've purchased a lot of swage dies. I choose to spend money on quality tools though. Just like guys who buy snap on tool boxes spend the same as a new car do. There is a need for healthy competition in the swage die realm it is true. I would very much like to see somebody step up and cause a upset (unlikely). But just like how NOE and Mihec have developed and perfected brass HP molds, its been great for consumers, I can't afford all of their molds nor do I wish they were priced to a point I could, because the product they would offer at that price point would not be worth it.

[BT Sniper]

Been in front of the lathe for the last few weeks making dies. I can not help but find myself getting a bit aggravated at each hour spent (covered in oil with metal slivers embedded all over my hands) at the brash comments the OP has made towards the cost of quality swage dies, no matter who is making them or how much they are charging. As much as I would just like to forget and let this thread die I feel I need to comment.

I have been there! Been the one on the other side thinking "how could it cost so much", "I could do that", "how hard could it be" ....... well I found out and I can say it took a lot of money, a lot of learning, a lot of failure, a lot of patience used up, all for very little financial return on the incredible amount of labor involved to make and sell products people are going to be happy to purchase.

The problem pure and simple..... is not that the swage dies cost so much......... NO! The problem is that commercial bullets cost so little! Ask the guys in Australia! If for example, we had to pay $1.50 per projectile to reload (might seem unimaginable but....), the cost of a set of swage dies wouldn't look that bad at all. Next ask yourself how can commercial bullets cost so little? HUGE volume of sales right? How much investment do you suppose is in the machinery necessary to make those bullets? Sierra, Horandy, Speer, Nolser, the list goes on, all of them investing millions to make a few cents profit per bullet. A one man machine shop or even a 5 man machine shop can not produce enough swage die volume to make a living on such low profit margins and if they could it would certainly be a challenge to maintain quality control.

It is easy to gripe now about how much a set of quality swage dies cost when we can get commercial bullets easily and cheaply. We are finally emerging from what feels like an 8 year shortage and ominous fear over the availability of our reloading components, so swage dies might be a tough sell for a while till the next shortage but...... well add your own political or personal comment/opinion here, I would rather have a hopeful future and our shooting rights and supplies not infringed upon, so I'll get by with what few swage die sales I can manage.

To the OP...... there is something more to it then simply turning a wheel on a lathe or pushing a button on a CNC and this might be hard to understand or even explain, but I find the mood or state of mind of the person operating the machine also has a huge effect on the outcome of the quality of the part. I'm afraid my mood and ability to produce a top quality set of dies for you has been negatively affected. I am sorry, I do not have any products to offer you.

Good shooting and swage on!

Brian Thurner

BTSNIPER llc.

[Pipefitter]

/\ /\ /\

Well stated.....

[BulletFactory]

Merry Christmas.

[seppos]

As it is christmas, I will run small batch of dies in .224 and .312

That will be a limited run of 10 sets as I already have blanks ready for it. Both will be with 6 ogive.

S

[BT Sniper]

Don't forget to comply with vendor sponsorship rules in selling products on this site.

[tiger762]

Some things to consider:

1. RCECO makes a 3-die set for $542
2. CH4D makes (when the mood hits them) a 2-die set for $250
3. Lee makes various reloading die sets for $25 that are every bit as polished as swage dies. They don't make swage dies but they clearly possess the manufacturing technology to make them if they wanted to get into that. There was a time when 50BMG dies were expensive until Lee got into it. I can see them one day offering a 224 6S as that is probably the most common.

I think swage dies are difficult to make by hand on a manual lathe, so maybe the solution is to have a CNC shop do a run of them, another shop heat treat, then polish by hand?

[tiger762]

Yep, a couple weeks ago I got in a Dillon XL650 set up in 9mm. Just finished a ten day reloading marathon with 9907 rounds of 158gr 9mm subsonic. Started with 10,000 38cal 158gr RN bullets. I have 63 with high seated primers and 33 were burnt up in getting the charge weight / velocity settled. 3.3 grains of Titegroup

Anyway, the cheapest I can find 9mm/158gr is for $300/1000. I am reloading it for $0.13 per round with most of it being the price of the bullet ($86/1000). So I would say if you're in it to load 10,000+ of ONE round, definitely the equipment will pay for itself.

I just did a caliber swap to 380 last night. Now hip-deep into reloading that....

I'm pretty sure the ONLY way one will ever save money by reloading is sticking with just reloading one caliber and one or two powders appropriate dies and A good press.

[runfiverun]

Seppos:
please place them in the swap and sell section.

remember it is for casual sales and there is a limit.
thanks Bud.

[seppos]

I do, when they are in sale.

Would hate to end up to situation that need to become a vendor as that would mean to make somekind of profession from a hobby.. and that would mean that I should start serious production of dies.. In hundreds..
Maybe somebody else in the states wants to do the selling and make few bucks out from it.. Much cheaper to transport a crate to states and handle the distribution there locally.
S

[clodhopper]

My thought on seeing Seppos' die making unfold, was that our European friends suddenly had a local source of swaging dies.
The machine shop Seppos has access too must be nice, and I envy his CAD/CAM skills.

[seppos]

Life is a learning experience. In CAD/CAM environment the distance does not play a big role anymore.. It is as easy to send ready made program to the room behind the wall or to the other side of the world.. One machine shop in the states willing and properly equipped is enough to start production there.

S

[clodhopper]

I was introduced to CAD/CAM late in life, slowly climbing up the learning curve. Looking forward to the day when my horizon is at an angle less than 90 degrees.
Making die blanks is simple for good programmers and operators with machines in good repair.

Finishing dies is so far, painstaking, one at a time, handwork.

I just admire the way you say "this can be made" and very shortly afterword you post a model.

[seppos]

I used to be manual guy but wanted to learn more.
Studyed it a bit but realized that even the teachers where not expert in some issues, so pushed further. Now are good with MasterCam and GibbsCam..

S

[clodhopper]

Each program has so many facets, I wonder if any body is expert in all issues.

[seppos]

One learn by doing. That general rule applys everything.

S

[Blanket]

BulletFactory, just fyi I source tooling in China for our plant there. There are several shops where I feel they could be sourced for a landed cost of about $300 a set. It would be most likely a minimum order of a 1000 sets of any one caliber and bullet profile. Also would need to put about 1/2 of the money down to start. Let me know and I'll hook you up. Would take a trip there for introductions and the flights from Chicago are about $3000 and it is about 16 hours to Hong Kong. Then a 2 hour ride into the PRC. Altogether with expense you will have about $320 in each set. That leaves you 1 to use and 999 sets to sell

[WFO2]

I'm very new to this forum and casting . Starting to gather the tools I need to get into swaging . I have a set of dies . I have found BT sniper to be very patient with me and prompt in replying to my questions . I will buy a die from him to make the XTP type bullet the first of the year . I figure that anybody who puts up with my dumb questions has got to be a stand up guy .

[clodhopper]

BulletFactory, just fyi I source tooling in China for our plant there. There are several shops where I feel they could be sourced for a landed cost of about $300 a set. It would be most likely a minimum order of a 1000 sets of any one caliber and bullet profile. Also would need to put about 1/2 of the money down to start. Let me know and I'll hook you up. Would take a trip there for introductions and the flights from Chicago are about $3000 and it is about 16 hours to Hong Kong. Then a 2 hour ride into the PRC. Altogether with expense you will have about $320 in each set. That leaves you 1 to use and 999 sets to sell

And then hope like hxxx that once you push a bullet up into that die, you can get it back out X 999.