FYI!! Shooting the 22LR to 223 projectiles through a can may damage them!!

[Lizard333]

I have a good friend that I loaded up a few hundred 223's out of 22LR and he loves shooting dogs with them, He tried it with his can and had some come apart in the can, causing damage to it. I have hear about the Barnes Varmint Grenades doing the same and I believe it may be because of the thinner jackets not holding up to pressures in the can one the slug leaves the barrel. Any one else ever hear of this?

[reed1911]

I'm not sure what you are saying he is doing. Is he shooting his .223 Rem with a .22LR can on the weapon? Or is he shooting .22LR bullets he pulled and then loaded into the .223 Rem? Or is he pulling bullets from .22LR ammunition and then loading up .223" bullets into the case and shooting them?

[runfiverun]

he made 223 bullets from 22lr cases.

I know there is some extra pressure in the can but if multiple projectiles are doing it I would examine the can very carefully for baffle strikes.
I have seen some longer.308 cast boolits with nose deformity's also have baffle strikes as they are trying to corkscrew their way through.

he might have better luck by slowing things down a hundred fps.

[root]

Jacket separation is always a concern when shooting suppressed.

Anytime you are shooting a bullet that is know to ave thin copper walls always AVOID the use of a can.

Shoot far enough with mirage and bullets that are know to separate in flight is really cool as you can see the vortex of the bullet come apart in flight through the scope.

Before I run any ammo that is new or questionable through any of my suppressors I always run the gun without the can and check for things like ....

Is the bullet stabilizing?
is it so fast and thin jacketed that it is separating? if so at what distance?
And all the other good happy horse **** that comes with the 200 stamp and the long wait to replace it.

Safety 1st for you and the can.
I have a load for the 5.56/223 bolt gun that is so hot and moves so fast I would never suppress it.
them little 32 grn TNT speer HP.
To date never had one come apart that I know of but it's bound to happen.

Rich

[mcdaniel.mac]

Yep, first thing is to check the bore and make sure the threads (and barrel, looking at you Mossberg!) are concentric to the bore. Slight misalignment makes for baffle and endcap strikes.

Next, make sure the bullets aren't separating or keyholing on their own by firing at a very close (10 feet or so) target and inspecting for oblong holes.

Lastly, thin jackets can be an issue, especially if the projectile is spun too fast. I have seen 45gr bullets 'asplode when fired at 3200FPS through a 1:7" twist barrel. If it's happening with the can on, it's almost certainly happening with the can removed.

[Lizard333]

threads are good, they were turned on a lathe by a competent gun smith. Never had any problems with the loads prior to shooting them in the can. Im guessing its the thinner jackets that we use with the 22LR jackets, that just can't handle the pressure. Just glad I can share the knowledge and prevent this from happening to someone in the future!!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I has gifted some 6mm swaged bullets made from rimfire brass (22mag I believe?).
I loaded 'em a bit hot and ended up with brass fouling...that was a bit of a surprise.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-bore-now-what

[Lizard333]

I has gifted some 6mm swaged bullets made from rimfire brass (22mag I believe?).
I loaded 'em a bit hot and ended up with brass fouling...that was a bit of a surprise.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-bore-now-what

How did you end up getting it out??

[runfiverun]

that is a bit surprising.
I know some bullet jackets and some cases are made with the same copper-zinc compound.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

How did you end up getting it out??

It's been two years...and dang, I didn't post about it?
I didn't try the Ammonia-Ed's Red 50-50 blend I asked about near the end of the thread.

I soaked it with Ed's Red over night, Brushed it the next day
repeated that a couple nights.
then it finally all let loose, I think I have photos somewhere, Lots of sparkly particles and slivers.
I then shot a few GC'd cast boolit loads, and gave another real thorough cleaning.
Looks like new.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

that is a bit surprising.
I know some bullet jackets and some cases are made with the same copper-zinc compound.

I was pushing those 90gr homeswaged bullets in my 243win real fast...Too fast.
I just dug out my log book, I used 43gr of IMR4831, The max load in Lyman 49th Manual, that manual spec'd 3230fps and 62Kpsi.
Too much for a thin jacket I suspect

[runfiverun]

I'd say you were pushing things a bit there.
probably fighting skidding for a good portion of the time.

[Valornor]

Any thing will come apart in a fast twist barrel if you push it too hard. Except for monolithic bullets. As the bullet leaves the muzzle this is the fastest the bullet will spin. If it's going to come apart it's most likely to start coming apart right then. Which is bad for suppressors. Thin jacket bullets pushed at a high velocity in a fast twist barrel are the most likely ones to be spun apart.

There is such a thing as spin decay, which slows the bullets rpm gradually due to drag. So watching a bullet suddenly fly apart at 200 yards is a rare event.

Most manufacturers do what's called a jacket integrity test. They purposely use very fast twist barrels and push the bullets to the extreme in velocities to try and get the bullets to come apart. This is done at 25yds then 100 yards. If you are swaging your own bullets, doing these types of tests will prevent damage to muzzle devices.

[Lizard333]

Any thing will come apart in a fast twist barrel if you push it too hard. Except for monolithic bullets. As the bullet leaves the muzzle this is the fastest the bullet will spin. If it's going to come apart it's most likely to start coming apart right then. Which is bad for suppressors. Thin jacket bullets pushed at a high velocity in a fast twist barrel are the most likely ones to be spun apart.

There is such a thing as spin decay, which slows the bullets rpm gradually due to drag. So watching a bullet suddenly fly apart at 200 yards is a rare event.

Most manufacturers do what's called a jacket integrity test. They purposely use very fast twist barrels and push the bullets to the extreme in velocities to try and get the bullets to come apart. This is done at 25yds then 100 yards. If you are swaging your own bullets, doing these types of tests will prevent damage to muzzle devices.

I agree. These same loads shot fine without the can. We've been shooting dogs for a couple of years without a problem. This only happened when we put the exact same loaded round through a can.

[Valornor]

What was your load? What twist barrel are you shooting it through?

I have seen where bullets that are on the verge of not stabilizing can shot just fine without a can, but due to internal turbulence creates as the gas interacts with the baffles, disrupts the bullets flight and creates excessive yaw.

I have also seen bullets yaw like crazy coming out of the barrel. The most recent case was due to excessive wear in the throat. You normally wouldn't even notice unless the yaw was so excessive it was causing fliers on the target. However with the tight clearances on the barrels even a little bit of yaw might cause you issue. You could check thick by setting up yaw cards, starting at ten feet in front the muzzle and then every foot there after.

These seem unlikely but to me if your loads were good before and adding a can is what caused the issue then it's either something that's been an issue all along you just haven't noticed or it's an issue caused by The can.

[Lizard333]

I've heard of similar problems with thin jackets on the varmint rounds. From what I've found, the extra pressure in the can causes issues with the thin jackets.

[Valornor]

The pressure in the can isn't anything compared to the pressure the bullet experiences in the barrel.

[Lizard333]

The pressure in the can isn't anything compared to the pressure the bullet experiences in the barrel.

Again, I agree. These same loads have had zero issues shooting out to 300 yards plus on dogs, shot from the same gun. Not one problem. Can is installed and now he gets baffle strikes. No other variable in the equation. The only variable is the can. Why it did it, can't say. But with the can being the only change, it has to be contributing something. Pressure was mentioned on some of the posts I read on Ar15.com if I remember correctly. I'll try to find it.

[Valornor]

Pressure doesn't just doesn't make sense. If the load is supersonic the bullet will be past the first few baffles before the gas cloud fills the expansion chamber. As there is no way the bullet is experiencing more then atmospheric pressure as it passes through the can. The small amount of gas that leaks by the bullet wouldn't be enough to amount to anything.

All bullets have some yaw when leaving the barrel. Even bullets that shoot will have yaw. This yaw dampens out as the bullet moves down range. A lot of it depends on the design of the bullet and how far forward the center of pressure is compared to the Center of Gravity. With the close tolerance of baffles to the bore, it would likely take less then .030 or 0.040 of yaw to result in a baffle strike.

This yaw is part of the "go to sleep" long range shooters talk about. Problem is most people don't really understand what's going on. Normally it is invisible to the shooter and 90% of them time it doesn't cause any problems, but I would strongly think it might be causing a problem in this case.

[mcdaniel.mac]

Again, I agree. These same loads have had zero issues shooting out to 300 yards plus on dogs, shot from the same gun. Not one problem. Can is installed and now he gets baffle strikes. No other variable in the equation. The only variable is the can. Why it did it, can't say. But with the can being the only change, it has to be contributing something. Pressure was mentioned on some of the posts I read on Ar15.com if I remember correctly. I'll try to find it.

Has the can and barrel combination been checked for true as a unit? It could be that the can is not true to center, particularly for lower-priced or homebuilt cans.