Paper Patching??

[Meatco1]

Hello

I bought a .50 cal mold from a member here, that should be tossing .504 sized bullets, instead it will drops . 486 sized PB bullets.

My questions are, will paper patching work for a muzzle loader? If so, how does one go about it? What papers are best? Do you use something like a cigarette roller to paper patch bullets? Is the bullet lubed like normal?

I have a LOT of questions on this.

Thank you,

Richard

[leftiye]

Yes Paper patched is used in muzzle loaders. In fact when breech loaders were just starting to be used in matches, they still muzzle loaded the paper patched boolits for some time. Your boolit must be smaller than bore diameter somewhat to allow the patching to be wrapped and pushed down the bore. Patched boolit can be lubed and sized to bore diameter. Only works when sized this way with Black Powder as the shock wave is necessary to "bump up" the boolit to be tight in the bore.

[Razor]

Yo Richard..
First off, I am a looong way from an expert...but..
What gun are we talking about here ??
What is the twist rate ?? 1:48"...1:66" ??
Your twist rate will tell you if'n you're rifled best for round ball or conical boolits..
Have you "slugged" your bore ??
This will tell you how much patch thickness you need to match your groove to groove diameter.
Most muzzle loaders use a greased cloth patch and round ball...
Paper patching, as I understand, is primarily for breech loaders...
I'm thinkin'..since you would want your PP .001 or 2 over groove diameter, that starting a PP from the muzzle would probably tear the heck out of it..
WTH.. give it a try..
I just discovered PP'ing a couple of weeks ago..fascinating subject...
I roll my boolits freehand..('63 Sharps)
I've tried cigarette papers, typing paper, newspaper..ain't shot enough to say which is best..
I haven't lubed yet...but some fellas dip lube with Alox..
Hopefully the more knowledgable guys will answer up shortly...


Razor

[Meatco1]

The rifle I'm talking about in a T/C "Hawken" in .50 cal. The bbl twist is 1/48. I've spend several hours perusing the web on this subject, and now know it is entirely feasible to paper patch for this rifle.

Now comes the hard part, there are so many different opinions on which paper to use, how thick the paper should be, lubing the bullet then paper wrapping, wrapping the bullet, then lubing, ect., ect. I assume there is a fairly large learning curve here, as each rifle looks like it has to be approached differently.

Too bad “The Paper Jacket” by Paul Matthews is out of print, as much as I would like to own a copy, I can’t see paying $85.00 for the thing.

Richard

[montana_charlie]

As I understand it, paper patched bullets for muzzle loaders use a different patching method.

Two strips of paper are laid down in the form of a cross. The bullet base is placed on the center, and the four 'ends' are laid up against the sides of the bullet. Kinda like putting the peel back on a banana.

I think it's called a 'cross patch'.

CM

[juanvaldez]

As I understand it, paper patched bullets for muzzle loaders use a different patching method.

Two strips of paper are laid down in the form of a cross. The bullet base is placed on the center, and the four 'ends' are laid up against the sides of the bullet. Kinda like putting the peel back on a banana.

I think it's called a 'cross patch'.

CM

Thats one way...I patch with 2 wraps for boolits out of my gibbs, same as if the boolits were going in a cartridge rifle. Works great.

[jack19512]

I am developing an interest myself in paper patched bullets for muzzle loaders and don't mean to divert this thread but I would like to ask if when using paper patched bullets for the muzzle loader is it still important to use soft lead instead of maybe wheel weights for the cast bullets? Might be a stupid question but I have to ask.

[405]

Several reference books and lots of info out there on the subject of PPs in muzzleloaders. The big "slug guns", super target rifles of the day, used all manner of bullets including PP bullets. Most I've seen referenced used a very plain conical, flat base usually swaged then paper patched used the cross patch method. They had a removeable false muzzle (actually part of the barrel cut off before fitting barrel to receiver). Usually the false muzzle was taper crowned, and fitted with pins for alignment to the rifle muzzle with opposing mating pin holes. To start a PP bullet without damaging the patch... a paper wrapped (a few ways were used) bullet was gently started into the false muzzle. That pre-engraved the PP bullet for easy entry into the rifle bore. The bullet was pushed home with a ramrod. Those finished bullets were usually slightly over bore diameter. It can be done successfully with a regular muzzleloader without the false muzzle-especially if you go to bore diameter or a tad under bore diameter with the finished PP bullet.

For regular muzzleloaders the methods vary as do the successful adventures. The idea is to take a lead bullet- the softer the better- that is slightly under bore diameter. You have to slug your bore to get the measurements. Most paper patchers use the twice wrap system. If your bore diameter is .450, you take a bullet of say .443 OD. Use a paper that when wrapped twice will increase the bullet to .449-.450. Most of the very thin cotton papers will be about right. Thicker papers require the bare bullet to be less than .443! Lightly lube the PP bullet after drying and push down on top of the blackpowder load. At ignition the BP ignition impulse will obturate the bullet to full groove or near full groove diameter and presto hopefully an accurate result. I think the theory of the TC Maxi Ball is about the same. Just substitute an appropriate PP bullet for the Maxi Ball and that's about it. Also a good idea to swab and clean between shots for best results. A lubed felt wad on top of powder usually helps most muzzleloader loads... at least in my experience.

[EDK]

Someone posted, somewhere else, that THE PAPER JACKET will be reprinted in the near future. Evidently someone at Wolfe Publishing listened to requests...and decided that if it was scalped at $60 to $80 they'd probably sell a bunch at $20! Mr. Matthews discusses loading the boolit from the muzzle and the loaded cartridge casing from the breech in one of the books. (I bought the bunch of 7 for about $100 several years ago.)

[idahoron]

Hello

I bought a .50 cal mold from a member here, that should be tossing .504 sized bullets, instead it will drops . 486 sized PB bullets.

My questions are, will paper patching work for a muzzle loader? If so, how does one go about it? What papers are best? Do you use something like a cigarette roller to paper patch bullets? Is the bullet lubed like normal?

I have a LOT of questions on this.

Thank you,

Richard

1-will paper patching work for a muzzle loader? YES!
I have been shooting paper patched bullets for about two years now.

2- In my 50 cal Green Mountain 1-28 I use a 500 S&W bullet. I size it to .501 then I wrap it with two wraps of 25% cotton paper. Then I size them again to .501.
In my 45 Green Mountain it is 1-18 twist. I use a paper patched 459-405-HB bullet. I size them to .451 then wrap them. Then I size them again to .451 after the paper is on. The is a Renegade with Lee shavers Globe front sight and a Lyman 57 sml peep. This is a picture of a test I did.


The first picture is the 45 cal and the second is the 500 S&W bullet.The third is a group with the 500 S&W.