91 vs 91/30 ?? Hybrid ??

[Scorpius]

I'm looking at a rifle and it's a Tula 1936 hex. The numbers are matching and all stamped best I can tell from pics.

The stock has the repairs with a lighter colored wood on the tip where you normally see repairs (near front sight). And the top barrel wood looks lighter as well. Almost like they shellacked the rifle first then did the repair and missed shellacking the upper guard.

The stock has the sling holes where the screws exist like on the m91, but the sight base on the barrel is that of a 91/30 as are the bands both front and rear.

No idea receiver date but can pick it up for sub 200. What are your thoughts on this? A 91/30 from an m91 that just didn't get completely overhauled?

[mcdaniel.mac]

Does it have any additional markings? I had a Tikka 91/30 (Finnish capture rifle) that sounds similar. Shot extremely well for a Mosin, especially with the heavy stuff. If it has a Finnish arsenal mark on it, then it's probably a good buy. Otherwise it might be someone's home project hat was abandoned.

[Stewbaby]

Probably a Finn capture 91/30...is there an SA stamped on the receiver?

[Multigunner]

I've always liked the Hex receiver best.
I've considered finding one of those pre bubba'ed to build up into a sporting rifle much like the best of the Finn civilian MN custom sporting rifles.

Theres a 9mm wildcat based on the 7.62X54R case, and one with a slightly larger bore (9.3 or 9.5?). Those should be great cast Boolit shooters. I'd stick with moderate charges with the older Hex receiver actions. The only broken MN receiver I've seen photos of was a Tula Hex action.
I think a member here posted those images. IIRC the steel was brittle. Not that this is a common concern, since all those old rifles withstood the worst possible conditions and any weak actions would most likely have been weeded out long ago.

[leebuilder]

Could be. Look for the SA stamp. Most mosins have a dated receiver the stamp is under the tang followed by an "r" could be 2 or 4 digits. There are other signs, these are the ones I look for. The barrel date don't nessesarly match the receiver date.
Be well

[Ken in Iowa]

M91 production ended at Tula in 1925, so yours was built as a 91/30.

The Soviet stocks with screwed sling escutcheons were made until 1941.

1936 was the last year of hex receiver production. I would be surprised if this one has an earlier receiver, but it's possible.

Mosin actions are surprisingly strong. If it's in good condition, there is no reason to baby it. That said, there is some debate around poor steel used at the time of the Russian Civil War. As already stated, most bad ones have already been weeded out.

The price is not out of line if the bore and stock are good.

[EMC45]

I have a New England Westinghouse hex receiver that was supposed to go to Russia, but stayed back because of the bolshevik revolution. It somehow ended up in Finland and has the "SA" stamp inside the box on it. It shoots pretty good too.

[JeffHolt]

It sounds like a period correct 1936 Tula Hex 91/30 to me. it would be a nice surprise if it is all original, including the stock. look for refurb marks on the stock, the barrel and receiver. see if the font matches on serialized parts.

[Scorpius]

Yup....thinking this is all original (well barrel and receiver). with post war depot. Man if it could only tell it's story.

http://s1323.photobucket.com/user/Sc.../1936%20m91-30

[Ken in Iowa]

Not original. It's a post war refurb with a mix of parts.

The triangle 1 mark is the refurb depot. At one time it was thought to be an East German marking, but that has been refuted.

A great piece of history built during Stalin's terror and the build up to WW2.

[Scorpius]

Not original. It's a post war refurb with a mix of parts.

The triangle 1 mark is the refurb depot. At one time it was thought to be an East German marking, but that has been refuted.

A great piece of history built during Stalin's terror and the build up to WW2.

Correct. I meant barrel and receiver original, which suits me. Next best thing to all original IMO

[WineMan]

The majority of the production of 1935 and 1935 Soviet M91/30's went to the Socialists in Spain to fight against Franco and his German Nazi Fascist buddies. I had the identical rifle and they were the first of the M91/30 rifles imported into the US in the early 1960's. Many had USSR (mine did) stamped on the receiver, some had a lazy stamper and said URSS!. They had the hex receiver, screwed in sling escutcheons and decent bluing. Mine was also a 36 Tula with the stars on the receiver and stock. The barrel is somewhat rough but like most of the MN's it is pretty accurate. The LEE 312-160 TL seems to do well as cast and the GC put on in a 0.314 LEE push through die and Liquid Alox or even better the 45:45:10 Alox, JPW MS blend. The trigger, well a target model it is not. You can clean them up and shim them but the Finn's figured out a better way to skin a cat and used pins on the trigger for leverage. Soviet stuff may be rough, but it takes abuse, is usually very effective, and does not really care if looks take second place over function and performance. Too bad the days of $100 MN's are gone, they were the last of their breed: 100 year old designs that still brought a grin to their owners. A couple of spam cans of ammo, a pile of cans at 100 and a swinger gong at 200 yards. A bowl of hot water and Hoppes to clean them what could be better! I have never heard of a MN with "Brittle" steel but they made 14,000,000 of them so anything is possible.

Dave

[m.chalmers]

Read here:
http://7.62x54r.net/

[andrew375]

I've got one like yours, a real mixed bag. 1932 Ishmesh octagonal receiver in a 1934 Tula stock. Rear sight swapped for the '31 sight but not the front sight! This means it shoots high, too high for anything under 500 yards! The 1000 yard setting is 850 metres on the sight. Barrel is well worn with just a hint of rifling, groove dia. is .3145"

A real pain though was that after a few rounds the bolt would get difficult to lift and then rounds in the mag would jump out and the rifle became a single shot. Taking the rifle apart yielded no clue and it worked perfectly once reassembled. Fire a few rounds and I was back to having a single shot with a hard action. I eventually traced it to the recoil lug recess in the stock being located about an eighth of an inch further back than the face of the recoil lug on the receiver. Upon firing the receiver was driven to the rear, out of alignment with the bottom metal. This caused the magazine interrupter to no longer line up with its little aperture in the side of the magazine wall. The stiff opening was caused by the interrupter being jammed against the edge of the opening and the rounds jumped out because the interrupter couldn't return to its proper place. I had two solutions; I filled and bedded the stock with Devcon and opened up the aperture in the magazine box.

[Ed in North Texas]

The majority of the production of 1935 and 1935 Soviet M91/30's went to the Socialists in Spain to fight against Franco and his German Nazi Fascist buddies. Snip

Dave

Slight correction: Stalin sent arms, ammunition, advisors, aircraft and pilots to the Communists in Spain to fight Franco and his Nazi supporters (including arms, ammunition, advisors, aircraft and pilots). Neither side had clean hands. The Republicans started with many Socialists in command, but the Communists took over most of the Republican command before long (shades of the 1917 Revolution!). The Communist domination of the Republican forces is the reason that Americans who voluteered to fight Fascism in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade were prohibited from being given a security clearance. The Brigade was listed as a subversive organization.