Do I go to church, every week. I keep the commandments as best I can. Do I screw up yes I do but that is why Catholics have confession. I believe that church is not strickly needed, you can talk to God anywhere that you choose. I also keep the sacraments.
jim
Well, maybe I stand corrected. But I still think the reason you're happy is that you're simply truthful, and that's something I'll always respect. It's those who are pretentious that I was referring to, and those are the only kind I've met so far, until you at least. Happiness is a state of mind, but true satisfaction permeates the whole person, body, mind and spirit. Maybe I just didn't use the right word? People come to belief from all manner of directions, in the process of doing all kinds of things, but the single, uniform factor that I've been able to find is simply that they were actually seeking the real truth. And it's out there, as several have said in this and other threads. Any man who truly and earnestly and honestly seeks the truth can and will find it. It's kind'a funny how that works, but it really does. The Bible is admittedly hard to fathom in many ways. I've been stumped about it for years myself, so I know whereof I speak. But there really is truth, and it really is out there, and all we need to do to find it is actually seek it. It can be a frustrating experience for some, while some come to it pretty easily. Why the difference? I'm not sure, but those who find it late in life seem to, perhaps because of having so much experience through which to view it all, become some of the most devout believers. It really kind'a makes sense once a person comes to belief, but to the doubters and deniers, it can't, simply because most don't want it to.Originally Posted by UKShootist
Blackwater, you're from Georgia? I've been there. Visited Forsyth and Macon, spent some time with local officers. I particularly admired all the bullet holes in the road signs, especially the larger calibre ones!
Anyhow, you are clearly a Southern Gentleman and one to spend some time in discussion with. Reading this thread, I would like to say a couple of things. Firstly, you mention you have never met a happy atheist, well, you have at least corresponded with one, for that is me. At least, this will depend somewhat upon semantics, for I prefer to use the word 'contented' as I regard happiness as being what you experience as a change of state that happens when you experience a mood lift. This doesn't stop me being a grumpy old git sometimes, but from personal experience I don't think this stops Christians from being the same on occasions.
Life is good, for all the misery I have seen, both personal and professional. My earliest clear memory is when I was seven years old and I stood and watched my best friend fall into a canal and drown, his face inches under the water. In 2004 my life felt like it had stopped when my 20 year old son died as a result of a road traffic collision after being unconscious for 19 days in intensive care. Many disasters fell in between and after, and are not for sharing on a public forum, but in many ways I have been very lucky and, perhaps most importantly, I have been able to recognise that luck and enjoy life in my own way, enjoying the good, enduring the bad, and hoping I can tell the difference.
Now, I'm not going to say the other until such times as I reach the pit (on this forum, not the pit in case anyone is getting their hopes up!) because as I have said, I wouldn't walk into any chapel and start arguing with the faithful. I have, on a few occasions, given some evangelical types a bit of a hard, but polite, time. If they go knocking on doors to preach then they have to be prepared to face the music. But my debates are only ever intended to elicit further understanding of what people often call faith. My downfall is that I am too ready to respond in kind if someone should overstep what I consider to be the mark.
All the best, and as Dave Allen used to say "May your God go with you."
I don't believe you're a real, bona fide atheist. I think you're just a man who's neutral right now and seeking. And you're honest enough to admit you don't believe. That's generally the hallmark of one who'll really make a great Christian if and when you come to belief. That's been my observation, at least. So just keep seeking and you WILL find. And when you find it, I think you'll actually find it rather amusing. Most real atheists just simply aren't really open to belief, so I think that separates you out from them in a very critical way. Any man as honest and up front as you, I think, will find faith at some point, simply because of your honesty.
And as for that "southern gentleman" thing, don't put something on me that I may not be able to carry, please! I can, when provoked sufficiently, be as redneck as anyone you're likely to find. I can't help it. It's just what I am. A friend of mine came up with the term, "Renaissance Redneck," which is just a term for rednecks with a college degree. That's about as close a description as I can think of, of me and a number of folks today.
And my education was something I've always valued. My degree is in Criminal Justice, which is basically just a study of all the humanities put together in a package. I've also been taught by some really good guys in the system in seminars. Most didn't really pay very much attention to those, but I found some of them fascinating.
Mostly, I've just continued to separate the wheat from the chaff as I've been able to test the stuff I was taught, and not all of it has proven very valid or useful. So I just kept searching, observing and analyzing, and thinking. And I've had an abundance of experience in several fields, from which to see a lot of people, often in what's now called "stressful situations." And they've been very instructive, when I simply thought about them. But I still have more questions than I do answers, and that's the "cost" of a real education backed up by experience.
And I need all the help I can get from others who are further along in the study of faith and the Bible, et al, than I am. But I'm just not bashful about what I believe. I've found that I'm not gonna' learn much unless I stimulate some conversation, and listen to those who disagree with me. If someone can point out to me why and how I'm full of prunes, I actually like that. Who'd want to run through life believing something that's wrong? A lot of people seem determined to do that these days, but I don't have to follow suit. So I just try not to, consciously.
But I have good faith that if you or anyone else will just honestly look for and weigh the evidence, you'll come to believe, even if you haven't yet. We're all a work "in progress," and it seems the honest and earnest DO find faith, while those who aren't, simply can't. Agian, that's my experience, and I've had a pretty good bit of it. Of all the things that I think Christ looks for in his followers, I think one of the chief traits is simple honesty, for without that, one can't use the truth even if they find it. I'm no prophet and I can't tell you what'll happen tomorrow, but I can relate my experience, and that pretty well covers it. Others will disagree, because that's just what we do, it seems, but FWIW, that's mine.
Best wishes to you, and keep looking, and it'll find you one day. And when it does, I think you'll understand better what I mean when I talk about satisfaction that permeates the whole being. It's something that really defies the best of author's words, and mine are rather plebian in nature, even at my best. And ANYBODY who's truly searching for truth is welcome here in the Chapel. Where else would one who's simply curious and in search of Truth go to? The only ones we'd resent are those who came here specifically to disrupt the place and cause dissention. Those raise my hackles, but honest seekers never will. So don't be a stranger here. Guys like you are an asset to us all, because sometimes you simply make us think, and any man who makes me think is my friend. With your attitude, you'll always be welcome here.
JonB, FWIW, I think you put your finger on why I'll never be a member anywhere else but in my church that I've been a member of for over 50 years now. It's the people. The buildings aren't a church, it's the people inside it, like several here have said, and it's the people in a church that make it what it is. My own church has grown quite a bit, and I wasn't completely happy about it, because as a pattern, when a church grows to double or triple its size, there usually seem to be some trouble makers in the mix. But my fears seem to have been unfounded, for if there are any, they've sure adapted well to the church and its people. It used to be just another quiet little country church, but now has some significance in the county. Kind of an "alternative" of sorts to the more regimented and "formal" churches in town, and bigger and just as friendly (moreso in some cases) than some of the little coutnry churches.
People are very guarded about what they value, and some churches are a bit stand-offish at first to newcomers. But if they find you're open, sincere and honest, most, I think, will open up. So it might not hurt to give some of those you didn't feel fully comfortable in another try. It might or might not work out, but you're never gonna' know 'till you try. I just wish I could attend mine more often. Loving it from afar isn't very satisfying, and I really miss it.
UK I am going to pray you find the Lord before it's too late. I hate to see anyone in hell.
I drowned when I was 20 ,revived. Electrocuted when I was 21 , revived . Without going into details that are unexplainable and do not make sense when discussed . I go to church with every breath I have taken since . I am 57 now . Everywhere I am is church .
Wow! That's a lot of "proof" for one man! Thanks for chiming in with your own experiences. They matter.
Thank you , a powerful testimony to our Lord .
Wow, Phantom, Does God have a purpose for you or what? All Glory to God!
Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
I have always had an aversion to most religions because they are often intolerant to anything that is different and as my generation in Sweden still automatically became a member of the church at birth I exited when I became an adult.
These however are wise words and is how I have always tried to live my life. If people lived by them the world would be a much nicer place.
I think the term for my beliefs would be agnostic. My church, if you will, is the forest. Where I can smell the pine is where I find peace.
Last edited by Eamonn; 08-13-2016 at 04:20 AM.
Eamonn, like you, I feel most "at home" out in the fields and on the waters. Here in the swamps of southeaster Ga., on the coastal plain, we have tons of mosquitoes and other biting insects. Chiggers are the most aggrevating of all! And our swamps just teem with all sorts of life. It's everywhere! And there are snakes that can kill you, and spiders. Yet, it's the most wondrous place I know! It's a near perfect and near complete representation of God's handiwork that I know. All the pleasures and pains and beauty and horror all mixed together, and if you keep your eyes open and are careful, you can really find your place within it all, and prosper.
The whole world is like that, though, no matter where we find ourselves in it. I've found beauty and wonder, horror and hollowness, in California, Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, Kentucky, North Carolina, Virginia, Washington D.C., Indiana, Kansas, Oklahoma, Viet Nam and Japan. It really doesn't matter where you are. What matters is whether our eyes are open enough so that we CAN see what's really there before us to BE seen! And it's like that with Christianity as well. One really has to be willing to consider it - simply open to its possibilities - and then, if we really test it judiciously, I think it'll prove itself. That may sound like double-talk to one who as yet hasn't come to belief, but it's really true, and I'm very sincere about it. It may seem strange, but if you think for a minute, you'll realize that lots of strange things are really true in our world, and this isn't really all that exceptional at all.
I've long wanted to visit Sweden, but it looks like that's probably not going to happen for me at this point. You are a very hearty and interesting people! I've liked all the Swedes I've ever known. There haven't been a lot, but those I've run into have been uniformly very pleasant and honorable people. That still means something in this world.
As to Christianity, put it to the test! Give it an honest chance, and simply test it. Christianity is one of the few if not the only religion that invites itself to be tested, so that people might know, rather than merely believe, its truths. This isn't an overnight thing, but it's far from difficult, and far from being too long and boring for your consideration. And it just sits there awaiting your simple willingness to take it out for a test drive. Just be sure to find someone who has the real knowledge and spirit of Christianity within them to help point out the carpet, the radio, and all its capabilities when you take that test drive. And if you will, let us know what you think of it when you do. It's quite common, like buying a new car, to be ambivalent at first, and this is when some more reading up on the specs of the car and its provisions is in order, and many find that it takes several "test drives" for it to prove itself out.
But welcome to the Chapel here, and I hope you find it useful and illuminating. Derek's verse of the day and RL69's daily posts are very short, but give a new person a lot to think about. And the prayers for those of us in need might be illustrative to you as well. Science, now, has come right up to the threshold of proving that a god very much like the God of the Christian Bible MUST exist. So now, it actually takes less of a real leap of faith to cross over into the realm of true belief than it ever has before in mankind's history. Maybe God has granted us that boon to compensate and help counter the evil that seems to permeate our world today so often and so deeply? It makes sense that a truly loving God would do this for us at this stage in the earth's history, after all, doesn't it?
So welcome, and don't ever hesitate to ask ANY questions you have. We'll do our best here to answer them any time you are ready to ask them.
I have had the great fortune to have been exposed to some 5 or 6 "Real" Christians.
They all practiced, lived it daily. Tended not to preach at all. Although if you expressed an interest or a problem they were all more than willing to stop what they were doing and pray with you. Or point you towards some bible verses that might help you through your current problems.
All of them lived simple lives well within their means.
They did not cheat on their taxes, take advantage of their neighbors.
Most did not use foul language at all. Although a few had rather interesting things they would say if they hit their thumb with a hammer or sat on a pin.
Fiddlesticks was about the worst I ever heard.
Yes they were human, at times they suffered through trials, depression, loss.
All of them were over time well respected in their communities and churches.
Funerals of one of them tended to overflow buildings.
Do I try to emulate them, yes. Do I fail mostly, yes. Do I get up tomorrow and try again, Yes.
Anyone can believe and still fail. Some have faith that can move mountains.
But few are given the gift to actually live like Christ. To give love not pain, support and encouragement instead of hate and fear.
I doubt that I will ever be in their class. I am pretty darn sure at least 2/3's of them would be considered saints.
It is not hard to go looking for reasons NOT to believe. In fact the vast majority of those who would call themselves Christian are in reality not a good choice to try to emulate. In fact all you really need to do is just say "I don't want to bother" Kay, nuff said. Go do something else.
In fact I have a theory that goes something like as soon as a person truly becomes a perfect christian the Lord calls them home and they are no longer here.
So the only ones we really have for an example are imperfect people.
We are all human, we all sin, err, hate, lie, steal, kill, and generally fail.
But some of us are trying to lift ourselves up out of the filth. Our belief in a better life beyond both improves who we are here and now as people, and enrichen's our life.
Reason enough for me to get up every morning and try to do better.
Amen, Ghost. My experience has been much like yours. Those folks are just golden in our lives, and what a shame that there aren't more among us whom we can say what you did about them. "One day at a time." That's the only thing most of us can do.
I'll just say I'm back at it after years of 'agnostic'. It has been up and down for me over the years, only been back for about 6 weeks now. Working for me so far, I always tried to practice "the golden rules" either way. Sometimes my anger gets ahead of my brain though and I mouth off. I'll just keep doing my best for now.
My feedback page if you feel inclined to add:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...raight-Shooter
Thanks Yall!
That's really all any of us can do, Derek. Like you, I've long fought a bad temperament, and it's been a very long, slow road to get to where I am now, but it's all been worth it. Sometimes, I think God gives us things like this so we can have the simple opportunity to learn, and in the process, grow humble enough to receive many of the mesages he left for us fully enough that we can claim to "understand" them, at least enough for them to become really functional in our lives. Often, I remember the lines from the old hymn, "Closer Walk with Thee," "I am weak but Thou art strong." I really think God gives us problems so we kind'a really HAVE to learn, because without strong motivations, we probably wouldn't???? That's just something I've thought about, anyway. The Lord truly DOES work in mysterious ways (at least to us) His wonders to fulfill!
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