New Batch of Lyman 525's

[meadmkr]

When did MiHec have these slug molds? 2013ish? I'd love to get one of these in 20g and 12g (as if I don't have enough of his and NOE molds already).

[smokeeter]

smokeeter

Nice pictures with what looks like great results. What kinda gun/barrel did you say you were using to on those loads. Didn't see any rifling on wads or slugs so Im thinking a smoothbore?

I'm using these with a Savage 210F everything is stock except I filled the hollow stock with silicone caulking to add weight and help settle the recoil.

[Goose18557]

When did MiHec have these slug molds? 2013ish? I'd love to get one of these in 20g and 12g (as if I don't have enough of his and NOE molds already).

I concur. Would love to have one of these in 20ga. Spent some time browsing their website to no avail. May have to inquire about a custom mold.

[Goose18557]

Gents...just made a group buy discussion for a 20ga version of this slug.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-double-cavity

[MiHec]

I have some 12ga - full bore molds ready to ship. Wad molds will be available in month or so.

[Blood Trail]

I have some 12ga - full bore molds ready to ship. Wad molds will be available in month or so.

I want in on this.

[mojomandan]

I have some 12ga - full bore molds ready to ship. Wad molds will be available in month or so.

Full bore? What size are they? My barrel is .723". What do the slugs look like?

[Handgunr]

Hey guys......just getting back on after a long sabbatical;
I've been using this mold for many years now........As I have a ton of Federal Hi-Power buckshot cases saved up from range work as an LE range instructor, I opted to use them for slugs after buying the Lyman Sabot mold. Back at the time, we were regulated by state law to slugs only for deer hunting, so that was the motivating factor. I had bought the Lyman Foster type years before the sabot mold and they never shot worth a damn, so when it came available, I opted for the sabot mold.
I had to modify the wad choice to a WAA12/white (called for the yellow wad) due to the case height, but with 32.0 grains of Herco (Lyman book load), and a WW 209 primer, that load shot clover leafed groups out of several rifled shotguns we tried them through.....Benelli's, Remingtons, H&R's, Winchesters, etc. The load was so good that guys that were buying factory sabot jacketed loads at $15 a box of five, were begging me to load them some. At 1 1/4 oz., the velocity over my chrono was 1445 fps......and they hit HARD.....

After years of experimenting with slugs, I finally hit pay dirt, and that feeling of success was overwhelming.....lol

Bob

[45workhorse]

Pure lead, loaded backwards for inside the house only. From a short barreled double. Bad medicine for any uninvited guest, two or four legged critter.......

[CastingFool]

I have the Lyman 525 gr mold and cast a few out of plumbers lead. I don't have the Lyman 3rd ed handbook, but I picked a load from the instructions that came with the mold. I will be using WSF powder, with a WinAA wad, 209 primer and Remington one piece hulls. I have only loaded one slug, just to see how it would crimp. Powder, wad and slug was the perfect height for a beautiful crimp. I did not fill the cavity, as I want to see what it will do first. I picked that load because I already had the components, only needed powder. Will have to wait until I get some time to load up a few more, and go shooting. Wanting to reload slugs was what got me into reloading shotshells years ago.

[Handgunr]

CF,
If the WSF doesn't work for you, try the Herco. I tried Blue Dot and Unique before falling on Herco, and they didn't work so hot for me. Once I tried the Herco though.......night & day difference....and that was on all those guns mentioned too.

Good luck......keep us posted !

[CastingFool]

thanks for the tip, Handgunr, I will keep that in mind, next time I buy powder.

[Handgunr]

Good luck......
I got lucky and bought out a local supplier when he retired. Otherwise I probably never would've used Herco as I hadn't had much of a call for it in the past. Now, I wouldn't be without it. Works good in handgun loads too....a tad slower than Unique, but it shows neck & neck with AA#5 on the burn chart.....and only a tad faster than WSF (close though)

[longbow]

Are you using smoothbore or rifled gun?

This is one slug I haven't tried as I have read that they tend to become unstable and tumble when they go transonic if shot from smoothbore. All my guns are smoothbore... so far.

Longbow

[Handgunr]

Longbow......
No, the guns I use them in are all rifled. I just bought a Remington SPS Super Slug (heavy barrel-rifled) to use just for slug range work. I've never run them through a smoothbore, and you might be right about instability, not sure. I will try them sometime this spring through one of my smoothbore guns just to see what they do.

I have the Lyman foster (smooth sided) type slug mold as well, but due to liability issues maybe (shooting through full chokes), it's woefully undersized going up the barrel. Obviously they made it to fit through a full choke I guess, so it leaves the case and slops up the barrel until it gets to the choke. I ran several different loads through my old scoped slug gun and it was pretty dismal.....I spent awhile working with it, then I shelved the project for later. I had a swaging die made for it to expand it's circumference to cylinder bore prior to loading, so we'll see...........

Before you go buying a mold for it, try finding some on the net and loading them for testing. There was a place selling them for awhile at a 100 pcs per bag or something like that. The molds have shot up in price in the last few years, and (like everything else) it's gotten crazy.

Hope it helps....

[Smoke4320]

this 2 targets are the second loading of MP copy of Lyman 525 shot out of a double barrel Smoothbore pump Summit Management DP-12
Wanted to confirm first grouping before I started load development .. Did not want quirk load to lead me astray
22 grains of Unique in a fed 2 3/4 clear hull, a 16 ga nitro card in Fed S4 wad, hot glue base filled MP 525 slug

these are 50 yd groups
Attachment 163372Attachment 163373
Left barrel Right barrel

now fine tuning begins

Like Op stated its a brass mold so needs real good preheat .. after about 3 to 4 casts its just rains great slugs

[longbow]

Handgunr:

Thanks for the response and explanation.

Yes, my experience with Lyman Foster slugs matches yours except if they are cast from soft lead they slug up and fill the bore... they just don't do it evenly each time. I started loading those slugs exactly to Lyman manual recipes expecting the touted 4" groups at 100 yards (that's from smoothbore by the way). Was I disappointed!

I wound up shooting some into deep soft wet snow when I lived on the North Coast of British Columbia. The recovered slugs had slugged up to bore size but each one was a little different with noses cocked differently and trailing edges of skirts uneven. They are so sloppy they tilt going into the bore.

My mould casts to 0.705" diameter so a very loose fit bore but too big to put into a shotcup. Seems stupid to me to make an undersize slug if it is going to swell up to fill the bore anyway. It still has to swage back down to go through a choke. Rapine slugs are full bore and no problem. I understand Federal slugs are also full bore now.

One of my theories is that Lyman used to sell a swaging tool to put "rifling" on the smooth cast slug which would raise lands. If swaging grooves into the slug raised lands by about 0.010" radially then the finished slug would be about 0.725" diameter so a reasonable fit to bore. However, they have not made those tools for many years yet never bothered to correct the slug diameter.

Another fellow, SluggerDoug, posted a very good article on how he got good accuracy from the Lyman Foster and that involved swaging helical grooves into the slug using helical gears in a hand crank machine he made, which also raised lands to bore diameter so basically doing what Lyman used to do. He claimed good accuracy doing that so again it points out how ridiculous the grossly undersize slug is.

Buckshot (member here) machined grooves into a Lyman mould many years ago for a member to bring the slug up to bore diameter and provide lube grooves. That would work for a rifled gun or smoothbore.

Turbo1889 had a couple of custom moulds made up by Brooks for his smoothbores but they had lube grooves so should work very well in a rifled gun too. They were bore diameter and shot well from his smoothbores.

Anyway, drifting off topic here.

I like the Lyman sabot slug but would prefer a slightly smaller meplat in an RNFP or TC design. That should work for rifled gun or smoothbore and should not suffer from the wadcutter instability at longer ranges.

Loading into a shotcup is quick and easy though the shotcup is an added variable with possibly inconsistencies in thickness, centering and between brands. Still it is very convenient and seems to work so I think Lyman went the right way there.

Longbow

[Handgunr]

Longbow,

Yeah, my findings mirrored yours almost exactly, and I did the same thing........cast pure lead, loaded them per the book, shot them at 100 yds.......all over the paper. You'd get two or three that would group fairly close and a couple wild flyers. I finally went to a local machine shop and they quickly made me a rudimentary punch and cup die set which swages the slug out to cylinder bore, but I bought the sabot mold before I had a chance to mess with the foster slugs, so I just kind of shelved the project until later.

That .705 (if I remember correctly) was about full choke diameter, which to me indicated a liability issue that Lyman was following. The old "rifled slugs" (misnomer), yes.......had those fins you mentioned. Some back in the day thought they imparted spin on the slug, and I think the companies who made them probably used that misconception to sell them as well. All they did was allow a "riding diameter" that will fill the barrel, but yet still compress down to pass through a full choke. Several years ago, a couple I fired purposely through a full choked barrel and recovered showed them almost smooth.

Unless we were to impart a raised surface on the Lyman foster slugs..........one that could collapse as the factory one's did, or similar to the Brenneke's, then we are left to either machine the mold wider, or swage the slug to a fatter diameter to fit a cylinder bore.

Making them wider in either fashion, still gives me the creeps of someone accidentally grabbing them and firing them through a full choke......

Bob

[Handgunr]

Hey Smoke.......

Not bad at all from a smoothbore !........just goes to show that the sabots will work rifling or not.......

[longbow]

Personally I don't think a thin walled hollow base slug would be a problem for a choke especially if a soft slug. A thick skirted hard cast or oven heat treated slug well I'm with you there, I wouldn't want to be holding a full choked gun and pulling the trigger to launch one.

I like the idea of ribs/fins that can collapse if they meet a choke (like Brennekes have). However, the mould I made had 6 fairly wide ribs and I found that they collapsed. I have not really figured out why but recovered slugs showed flattened ribs on one side ant the nose and opposite side at the base like the slug tipped in the forcing cone. This was a long slug with long attached wad too so odd.

I have had best results so far with my homemade wad slugs which have done pretty well but required oven heat treating to stop skirt distortion and I didn't want to have to heat treat all my slugs. I am rethinking that at this point.

Another thought I have had is to Brenneke'ize the Lyman sabot slug by making a jig/mould to cast a hot melt glue skirt into the HB and have it extend 1/4" to maybe 1/2" out of the base of the slug. This should accentuate the nose heavy drag stabilized feature and has worked with some home made HB slugs as well as with my Lee Drive Key slugs. Being in a shotcup makes this an easy alteration. Of course for full bore slugs the hot melt glue extension has to be keep from contacting the bore. I use paper patching for that and it works pretty well.

Longbow