pressure testing for 9mm luger.

[Magana559]

Anybody know where I can get 9mm luger handload pressure tested?

Need this and various other calibers tested to continue my zinc bullet casting.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

[Larry Gibson]

The 9mm is one of the handgun rounds I do not pressure test.....just don't have a barrel.

in handgun cartridges currently I can pressure test; 32 S&WL, 32 H&R Mag, 38 SPL, 357 Mag, 44 SPL, 44 Mag, 45 ACP, 45 American, 45 Schofield and 45 Colt.

Larry Gibson

[mongoose33]

Larry, how do you do that? I've always used a Chronograph as a *very* poor-man's way of at least monitoring pressure, but it's not a true measure of pressure. In reality, I'm just looking at velocity as a way to tell me if something is "off."

I'd love to be able to measure pressure directly.

[Magana559]

The 9mm is one of the handgun rounds I do not pressure test.....just don't have a barrel.

in handgun cartridges currently I can pressure test; 32 S&WL, 32 H&R Mag, 38 SPL, 357 Mag, 44 SPL, 44 Mag, 45 ACP, 45 American, 45 Schofield and 45 Colt.

Larry Gibson

Ah that's too bad, what would a barrel and your time cost a fellow like myself to get some ammo tested?

I'm also interested in both 38 special and 357 magnum testing if it's an option.

I'm currently worried I'm exceeding pressure and the pistol won't cycle reliably. I could be wrong but I'd hate to be right, only one true way to find out.

In the 38 and 357 I'd be testing to find a maximum load as cycling wouldn't be such an issue. As in find a max and then try to refine accuracy.

[Larry Gibson]

I use an Oehler M43 PBL. With it a strain gauge is permanently attached to the barrel over the chamber. With short handgun cartridges I use TC Contender barrels placing the gauge as SAAMI location specifications. The M43 measures the complete pressure cycle giving a time/pressure trace/curve, the instrumental velocity at 15", muzzle velocity, fps difference between regular and proof screens, peak psi, rise time of the psi, area under the pressure curve and the ES'SD of all these plus the High/lows and the average. If I put an additional set of screens down range (I've learned to do this only with proven accurate loads) the M43 measures the time of flight and converts it to the correct BC. Standard atmospheric ballistics are also provided to either 250 yards or 500 yards.

Considerable data on the load, the atmospheric conditions, the gauge, the offset and the gun must be input correctly into the program which is on a lap top computer. The M43 collects the measurements via the gauge and screens and inputs it into the computer program.

A Contender barrel would have to be purchased. I would then use "reference ammunition" to check the data output and determine a correction factor before conducting any load tests with that barrel. That is the procedure used with each barrel. Also when testing others loads a 10 shot test for each load is required. I also require the exact information on the load and double check it against reliable load manuals. If the manuals do not list the components then a standard load work up to maximum psi is required. If I think the load may be excessive and possibly dangerous I reserve the right to not conduct the test. I will supply a copy of the M43 data sheet with my notes and observations on it or the specific reasons if a test was not conducted.

Obviously using the M43 is a bit more complicated that using a chronograph. It is not a matter of just slapping the cartridge in the gun and firing it. The time and effort for preparation, data input, set up at the range, data collection via correct testing method, recovering the equipment, printing out the data and analyzing the data is time consuming as I do it in a methodical manner to ensure consistency of data received.

Larry Gibson

[45-70 Chevroner]

I guess I'm not up to date on needing to pressure test. Does it not make sense that if you stay within the perameters of a reloading manual, you should not have pressure problems?

[Grump]

45-70 Chevroner:

What you suppose is usually true, but, but, but... you don't want to be the exception.

The manuals have some clues:
1. If the reported pressure on the max load is lower than for other powder/bullet combinations, then that powder most likely becomes "spikey" on pressure.

2. Allowing for barrel length, the velocity of the max load is something that should never be exceeded for that bullet/case/powder combo. The 3,000 PSI differences with different primers is *usually* within the safety margin.

3. I forgot the next major one, but someone will surely chime in.

mongoose33 :

That's exactly what I do, but in combination with the mathematical models of QuickLOAD, AND WITH the case capacity accurately entered AND correcting the Ba burn rate to match my actual velocities *near* that load level. Adjustments for heavier loads don't always track when going a lot lighter. THEN I factor in that my own safety margin means I want to stop at about 95% of the max velocity spec.

It ain't a true pressure test, but it has served me well the past few years.

[tazman]

I guess I'm not up to date on needing to pressure test. Does it not make sense that if you stay within the perameters of a reloading manual, you should not have pressure problems?

Yes it does, except when you are dealing with materials that are not covered by any manual I have ever seen or heard of.
The OP is dealing with zinc boolits. I have no idea what powders he is using as he didn't mention any. The zinc boolits alone are enough to warrant testing if available. Assumption can be made about comparable data, but without reliable testing, you don't know if they are valid.
If I were in his situation, I would want to get my loads tested just as he does.

[45-70 Chevroner]

45-70 Chevroner:

What you suppose is usually true, but, but, but... you don't want to be the exception.

The manuals have some clues:
1. If the reported pressure on the max load is lower than for other powder/bullet combinations, then that powder most likely becomes "spikey" on pressure.

2. Allowing for barrel length, the velocity of the max load is something that should never be exceeded for that bullet/case/powder combo. The 3,000 PSI differences with different primers is *usually* within the safety margin.

3. I forgot the next major one, but someone will surely chime in.

mongoose33 :

That's exactly what I do, but in combination with the mathematical models of QuickLOAD, AND WITH the case capacity accurately entered AND correcting the Ba burn rate to match my actual velocities *near* that load level. Adjustments for heavier loads don't always track when going a lot lighter. THEN I factor in that my own safety margin means I want to stop at about 95% of the max velocity spec.

It ain't a true pressure test, but it has served me well the past few years.

I should have added that I never load max loads. With fast powders I usually stay a 1/2 gr. Or a little more under max.

[paul h]

I guess I'm not up to date on needing to pressure test. Does it not make sense that if you stay within the perameters of a reloading manual, you should not have pressure problems?

Absolutely, provided you use the same brand/lot of brass, primers, powder, bullets, load to the same COL and fire them out of the same barrel cut with the same chamber. That's ignoring cast bullets with possibility of different alloys and hence weight, hardness, what they were sized to and the lube used.

Trouble is, every time one item changes, it can have an effect on the pressure generated. Sometimes higher, sometimes lower. As tolerances stack, pressure can go much higher than desired.

You are generally safe staying within loading manual guidelines, but there is a reason for that warning to always work up loads.

[mongoose33]

Thanks Larry! I'm not averse to learning or using a complicated system. If that's what it is, that's what it is.

I'm a little unclear about how this all works--is there a site you know of that explains how it all works, perhaps with pics? My google-fu is usually pretty good--and I absolutely hate it when people ask questions about stuff they're too lazy to search for themselves--but in this case I wasn't able to find much of use.

[rsrocket1]

Have you looked at Pressure Trace? $500 for the wireless system, $760 for the all-up system. It relies on a known standardized cartridge load which might be the weak point. Everything depends on the reliability of the reference load.

[Magana559]

I use an Oehler M43 PBL. With it a strain gauge is permanently attached to the barrel over the chamber. With short handgun cartridges I use TC Contender barrels placing the gauge as SAAMI location specifications. The M43 measures the complete pressure cycle giving a time/pressure trace/curve, the instrumental velocity at 15", muzzle velocity, fps difference between regular and proof screens, peak psi, rise time of the psi, area under the pressure curve and the ES'SD of all these plus the High/lows and the average. If I put an additional set of screens down range (I've learned to do this only with proven accurate loads) the M43 measures the time of flight and converts it to the correct BC. Standard atmospheric ballistics are also provided to either 250 yards or 500 yards.

Considerable data on the load, the atmospheric conditions, the gauge, the offset and the gun must be input correctly into the program which is on a lap top computer. The M43 collects the measurements via the gauge and screens and inputs it into the computer program.

A Contender barrel would have to be purchased. I would then use "reference ammunition" to check the data output and determine a correction factor before conducting any load tests with that barrel. That is the procedure used with each barrel. Also when testing others loads a 10 shot test for each load is required. I also require the exact information on the load and double check it against reliable load manuals. If the manuals do not list the components then a standard load work up to maximum psi is required. If I think the load may be excessive and possibly dangerous I reserve the right to not conduct the test. I will supply a copy of the M43 data sheet with my notes and observations on it or the specific reasons if a test was not conducted.

Obviously using the M43 is a bit more complicated that using a chronograph. It is not a matter of just slapping the cartridge in the gun and firing it. The time and effort for preparation, data input, set up at the range, data collection via correct testing method, recovering the equipment, printing out the data and analyzing the data is time consuming as I do it in a methodical manner to ensure consistency of data received.

Larry Gibson

Sorry about the late reply, I traveled 2 hrs for thanksgiving and had to make sure the animals would get fed over the weekend.

Definitely a bit of overkill data for me. This would be an a few steps down the road when I have figured a minimum and maximum load. This would definitely be worthwhile if i was going to market the ammunition or turn some kimd of profit. I'm just doing this for a hobby. As a minimum I'd have to send you a semi accurate load, unfortunately I have no idea where I would be at a safe level as I used 125 gr cast lead bullet data on a 125gr mold when I cast the zinc bullets. The powder I'm using is Titegroup because it's a fast burning powder and I'm shooting out of a 2.5" barrel. So far I have found zero load data for zinc.

I figured the process would be meticulous and time consuming, I just didn't know too much about it.

At this point it seems like I might have to put this on hold for now. Maybe until I buy my own hardware and software as I have way too many cartridges I need to test in both handgun and rifle. I understand rifle would have to be very short range due to the low density of zinc.

Anyway, I'm getting way too ahead of myself! Time to gather my bearings and start dropping quarters into the piggy bank. I thank you for your input and knowledge Larry, maybe I can bug you sometime and learn some more.

Happy thanksgiving everyone!

[Magana559]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-boolits-today

Link to my other thread, hope this answers some questions.