"low ball" bids on "firm" prices.... my 2 cents

[MBTcustom]

I agree with you 100% GoodOlBoy. I have seen some of the threads you mention, and they are obviously thinking that what they are selling is worth more than everybody else does. Offering 20% less is perfectly respectable and reasonable as a starting point IMHO, and should be countered with a true bottom dollar amount, or the item should be removed from sale. That's the respectable thing to do.

If nobody is buying what you're selling after a month of bumps, and you're not willing to bend on the price point, you're clogging up S&S trying to sell to the wrong crowd in the wrong place!

[MT Gianni]

I am of the opinion that if the price is listed as firm then a lower offer is equal to taking a dump on their front lawn. My counter will generally be higher than the posted price. If listed as "or offer", "Offers considered" or something similar a 20%-25% is a good place to start.

[snowwolfe]

Some people just can't resist and have to offer less. Often times they don't even have a use for what they are trying to buy. They just want that great deal then they come back and post "how did I do"? If the item is a gun. These are the same guys who have so much junk spread around their property they can't even navigate through it. It's all about the "deal"
Oh, and don't offer them less if they are selling because then the shoe flips and they'd get offended

[Char-Gar]

If something is placed up for sale, that includes an offer to negotiate the final price. "Firm price" is often just a negotiating tactic and should be considered as such. If a person is going to get his nose out of joint about a lower offer, they they should stay out of the market place.

However some offers can be so low as to be insulting. I would never offer anybody less than 50% of the asking price. If the asking price is double or more what I think it is worth or am willing to pay, I will just walk on by. I have seen lots of stuff offered at ridiculous prices, I consider that "trolling for suckers" and won't waste my time with them. The insult factor on asking and offering cuts both ways.

[Dframe]

When I see prices too high, I seldom even look again. I tend to not look at any item posted by that seller if I remember them posting at too high of a price.
Sometimes, I do get curious and I do look again, but not very often.

I do exactly the same!

[GoodOlBoy]

Yeah I agree to that if you are a horse trader or dickerer as they call it up north then when you are selling you should be agreeable and courteous when somebody makes and offer as well. Half the time when I am selling something in S&S I don't know if my price is good or not, so that's why I usually say call me out on it, make an offer, etc. I know that's different that a no offers firm price statement, but it is what it is. And as was said I believe "FIRM" is just a negotiating tactic.

As for the "guys who want a deal for deals sake" I wish i could say that has never been the case with me, but back when I was able to work and had money there was a couple times that yeah, I just wanted to make a deal. These days, for me, it's all about saving every nickle I can.

God Bless

Richard

[Der Gebirgsjager]

It seems to me that two diametrically opposed philosophies exist here, and probably throughout our economic society. The first would be the "priced as marked" philosophy, and the second the "haggle or offer" philosophy. One says, "I figured out what it was worth before I put the sticker on it", and the other says, "Nothing is really what it appears to be". I guess I would have to confess that I lean more toward the first than the second.

I've never been good at haggling, and rarely engage in it as either a buyer or seller. If the price tag says $100 and I don't want to pay that price I just walk on. I'll probably eventually see another one for less anyway, or if I don't and I still want it eventually I'll have the asking price. To me it's embarrassing to try to chisel someone down, and I don't much like them trying it on me. I know some folks are quite successful at the practice and it would appear that they save a lot of money. But you have to ask yourself, was the seller lying when he priced the item too high, or is the buyer lying when he tells him that it's worth less? Some, I realize, view haggling as a sport. I guess that's o.k. if both are players; but some, like myself, will give you a fair offer to begin with, which is on the price tag.

As has been said repeatedly, there is never any cause for rudeness---unless it is in response to rudeness, and then it is wise to think twice before responding in kind.

[rockrat]

I learned the "sport" of haggling from my Grandfather. He was GOOD at it. If I see something at a decent price and I really want it, I will pay what is asked, but I really must want it. Otherwise, I will counteroffer. Too many times I have seen a "firm" price that is way overpriced and I will ignore the item. If it keeps getting bumped up, then after awhile, a few weeks, I might make an offer, but you can bet its going to be down quite a bit from what is asked.
If I am selling, I try and price it fairly, and if someone offers me a lowball offer, I just reply "thanks for the offer, but I don't think so". No need to get rude. Had someone "desperately" needing some brass and I had some extra. I had paid more than wholesale for it because of its scarcity, so asked for what I paid for it, plus shipping and $2 more (PO is 5 miles away, so gas money). They got pretty hot in their PM about how I was overcharging for the brass (they offered dealer price-shipped) as it was only going for $XXX. Replied that if they could find someone willing to sell them brass for that, more power to them, but I wasn't going to lose money so they could have brass and that they must not be quite as desperate for it.
Worst I have encountered on this board was someone offering something for sale and I was interested, so PM'd them. Didn't hear back for about a week, so PM'd again asking if they got my first PM. Got a reply back the effect "yeah, I did" and that was it. They have had bunch of stuff for sale I would have liked, but won't deal with them again.
But as this thread says, no need to get rude over an offer, just say "NO" and leave it at that.

[retread]

I don't feel insulted if I don't get it for the price I want. I feel insulted when I ask politely and the seller calls me a dirty sob, or otherwise cusses at me via pm for even asking. I think if somebody is saying they need the money badly, and I am offering even CLOSE to what they are asking I AM offering respect. The only message I get when they are nasty is that they are not a person I would do business with AT ANY price. It isn't like I am hounding them over and over if I ask with a single pm about a deal, a barter, etc.

I don't have alot of spare money, or even any at the moment to be honest. So if I ask the seller if they would be willing to toss in the shipping on an item, and they are rude yeah i am offended. They coulda just said no, no thanks, etc. I had a person on this very board who was selling four items I was interested in. The only question I asked was if they would mind combining the shipping as they listed shipping extra on each item with the price as "FIRM", and all four items would have fit in a MFR box instead of four SFR boxes. I was informed that I could kiss a portion of their posterior if I didn't like their prices, they had already said "FIRM", and then they questioned both my intelligence and the status of my birth. Only they used short, rude words for each portion of the message.

Let me make this perfectly clear. I'm NOT offended if they don't take my offer. That's fine, it's their item so they are free to do what they want. I AM offended when I get cursed at, AND I do get offended when my question "just gets deleted". If you are offering an item for sale, and you can't have the common courtesy to answer even with two letters NO, then I just won't do business with you.

I grew up horse trading, going to flea and farmers markets, buying livestock, and going to yard sales. You don't even ask about the "best" price on an item and people take you for at best a fool and at worst a rich snob, and word gets around small towns. I try to never be rude to anybody, either with an offer, or just in conversation, and I won't tolerate people being rude to me.

God Bless

Richard

Very well stated. I agree 100%

I second that.

[dragon813gt]

If something is placed up for sale, that includes an offer to negotiate the final price. "Firm price" is often just a negotiating tactic and should be considered as such. If a person is going to get his nose out of joint about a lower offer, they they should stay out of the market place.

Why does listing something for sale mean the price is open for negotiation? Why don't you accept the that firm price means firm price? And why should people stay out of the marketplace if they don't want to hear the low offers?

I'm asking because I have the opposite view as you. I don't haggle over price. My Uncle does it all the time and it drives me nuts. I guess I see what someone types as literal. Not as a negotiating tactic.

[jsizemore]

Since we all speak the same language (well most of us anyway) and the seller is willing to take offers then they'll have "OBO" or "offers accepted" in their ad. I have to admit that I've probably missed out on some great deals since I didn't read minds or between the lines.

[starmac]

I tend to be a buyer much more than a seller, but personally would never put OBO in a listing. Why would anybody pay the listed price when the seller starts out saying he will take less, no matter if the asking price is a great deal or not???

[tnaz]

I don't feel insulted if I don't get it for the price I want. I feel insulted when I ask politely and the seller calls me a dirty sob, or otherwise cusses at me via pm for even asking. I think if somebody is saying they need the money badly, and I am offering even CLOSE to what they are asking I AM offering respect. The only message I get when they are nasty is that they are not a person I would do business with AT ANY price. It isn't like I am hounding them over and over if I ask with a single pm about a deal, a barter, etc.

I don't have alot of spare money, or even any at the moment to be honest. So if I ask the seller if they would be willing to toss in the shipping on an item, and they are rude yeah i am offended. They coulda just said no, no thanks, etc. I had a person on this very board who was selling four items I was interested in. The only question I asked was if they would mind combining the shipping as they listed shipping extra on each item with the price as "FIRM", and all four items would have fit in a MFR box instead of four SFR boxes. I was informed that I could kiss a portion of their posterior if I didn't like their prices, they had already said "FIRM", and then they questioned both my intelligence and the status of my birth. Only they used short, rude words for each portion of the message.

Let me make this perfectly clear. I'm NOT offended if they don't take my offer. That's fine, it's their item so they are free to do what they want. I AM offended when I get cursed at, AND I do get offended when my question "just gets deleted". If you are offering an item for sale, and you can't have the common courtesy to answer even with two letters NO, then I just won't do business with you.

I grew up horse trading, going to flea and farmers markets, buying livestock, and going to yard sales. You don't even ask about the "best" price on an item and people take you for at best a fool and at worst a rich snob, and word gets around small towns. I try to never be rude to anybody, either with an offer, or just in conversation, and I won't tolerate people being rude to me.

God Bless

Richard

Me three, and God Bless You Sir,

tnaz

[Nueces]

Clearly, people come from all over the place on this issue. One thing is obvious, but seems to be sometimes overlooked in this discussion. Listing an item for sale does nothing to communicate your particular particulars. If you're a hair trigger sort of bloke, who won't entertain polite offers and intends to go able sugar on anyone who can't read your mind, then please add a short paragraph that specifies your personal limits to normal human interactions. Without such specificity, the rest of us, upon first approach, must treat you as a member of a very large class of unknown folks who sometimes don't communicate their meaning well. A rude reply to a polite offer is rude, that's all.

Perhaps we need a banner under our avatars that says something like "Howdy, neighbor" or "What the heck did you mean by that!?"

Much, much better interaction usually results from attributing a good motive to something I don't at first understand, until things are made clear.

[snowwolfe]

A lot of people who are selling stuff do not need the money so they are able to price the item as firm. They just don't need the item anymore.
The people who really crack me up are the ones that say they can buy it cheaper somewhere else.
If this was true then why would they waste their time trying to haggle?

[tnaz]

Read the WHOLE thread. I like to haggle, with that said, what I have learned from this is: List selling price with FIRM means don't ask for lower price. If price is listed, as, $100.00 ... then its ok to offer a price lower than listed for the item.

Main point learned: Treat everyone with respect; don't be rude. Using bad language anytime it rude!!!

Good read any how,

tnaz

[brtelec]

If the price is listed as firm, and it is more than I am willing to pay, I am on to the next one. If their firm price is a negotiation tactic, it is a crappy one. I sell a few things here and there and most everything I sell on the forums usually sell in minutes. I have had a couple of items that did not, and had people make reasonable and ridiculous offers. I answer all offers with courtesy. It is possible that the guy making a ridiculous offer has that much disposable income and is hoping against hope that you will take it. It is certainly no reason to be rude. Being insulted by a low offer is beyond my comprehension. My biggest problem with online sales is how proud some people are of their used stuff. Why would I buy used to save 5% or $5.00,etc. I am stunned by the prices some people charge and other are willing to pay for used items. Amazing.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I just have to jump in here with my two bits worth. I have sold at swap meets, gun shows, yard sales and classified ads for many decades. I have learned a few things I would like to pass on. The first one is, don't start pointing out what is wrong with an item you want to buy. In doing so you have made two mistakes. The first one being, you have told the seller you really want the item. The second thing you have done is made the seller mad. The seller already knows the condition of the item and he resents you telling him about it. The second piece of advice is, if you are selling, don't put prices on anything. When I sell something I know what it was worth and when someone approached to look at the item, I sized them up and judged what I think they will pay. My wife and I were had a table at the big Pomona, Ca. gun show and on that occasion I was selling a lot of old spurs and bridle bits as well as reloading gear. Some of the horsey stuff was quite rusty and I had just dumped it on the table in a large pile. During a lull in the traffic my wife said, let me organize some of these pieces and put prices on them. I stopped her and said, let them do it. The very next man who came by started digging thru the rusty metal, stopped looked at us and said, isn't this fun. He was digging thru treasures. If I approach a table where everything is neatly displayed with little price tags on each item, I pass it by. It tells me that the seller knows full well what his stuff is worth and he doesn't want to be bothered talking about it. Another bit of advice, if you see an item you want, buy for the best price you can get the first time around. You don't want to come back later. I have bought and sold on this site as well and I am thankful that we have it to dispose of things we no longer want or need. Most of the things I have put up have sold in minutes. When I was new to the site I listed five Lyman #45 sizers with a choice of dies for $55 each. I was scrambling just to answer PMS. I won't do that again. I often see items listed here that I feel are over priced and I am shocked when they sell. Most of the time they don't. The seller just waits and lists the item again two months later, still over priced. When I see an item listed that is over priced I never inquire. About the only ting I buy anymore is brass and if it is listed for a dollar each, you can keep it. I will sell the gun first. Everyone has his own way of buying and I must admit, I am not good at dickering. I just don't do it well. If an item is not priced, I will ask the price. If it is too high I let it go. Sometimes that is enough to lower the price. If not, I can live without it. When I watch the TV show American Pickers I can't help but think, this is just not reality. There is no way those two guys can cruise the USA in an expensive Mercedes diesel van and buy the little pieces of rusty **** they load in the van and show a profit. I think they make their money from the network. Despite how I may come across in this little epistle, I am easy to deal with and have been very successful in my dealings with people. I like people and want to treat everyone fairly. I hope you take this advice in the manner it was written. Have a great day and God Bless.

[Char-Gar]

Why does listing something for sale mean the price is open for negotiation? Why don't you accept the that firm price means firm price? And why should people stay out of the marketplace if they don't want to hear the low offers?

I'm asking because I have the opposite view as you. I don't haggle over price. My Uncle does it all the time and it drives me nuts. I guess I see what someone types as literal. Not as a negotiating tactic.

When living in Ecuador a fellow once asked me (translation from Spanish), "I have been told than in America there are "precios fijos" (fixed prices)." I told him yes and he was astounded at the concept. In the vast majority of the world, there is no such thing as a "firm price". I won't say that American's are unique in this regard, but they are very much in the minority. As far as I am concerned, fixed prices goes against human nature and is counter intuitive. You have to be culturally trained to think it is normal.

[dragon813gt]

Well I'm born and bred here so it's normal. I don't care about how they do it in other countries. I honestly hate presenting a bill to someone from India or an Asian country. They try to haggle w/ you over the cost. We're flat rate and they agreed to the price before I did any work. It's led to quite a few people being sent to collections.