Lever gun accuracy with pistol cartridges

[fecmech]

Guys--A friend is contemplating the purchase of a Lever gun in one of the following calibers, .357, .44 Mag, or the .45 Colt. He asked me of the 3 cartridges was there any accuracy advantge of one over the other in the Lever platform. The gun is going to be used primarily for local metallic silhouette shooting and occasional deer hunting. The metallic silhouette is only to 100 yds on the NRA pistol targets and any of the calibers is capable of knocking over the rams ( I shoot .38 /158 rn/1100 fps in my single shot with good results). He is looking hard at the Marlin lever guns but again accuracy is his prime concern with cast bullets. Your thoughts?? Thanks Nick

[Jon K]

357.........Hands down winner for accuracy. The Marlin will digest anything you feed it.

Jon

[hyoder]

Jon K is absolutely correct - 357 mag.

[crabo]

I am this same hunt for a 357 lever gun and one thing I was told over and over, was to get as long of a sight radius as possible. (longer barrel)

Crabo

[billyb]

I have the marlin 1894 c in 357 20" so far likes every load i have tried.Very fun gun to shoot.

[HEAD0001]

Do you guys really think the 357 is more accurate than the 44 magnum?? Do you think the 357 has enough energy at 100 yards to knock over the marginal hits on silhouette targets?? I personally believe the 357 is a bit light for deer at 100 yards, but I will be the first to admit that I have never shot a deer at 100 yards with the 357. I have shot several deer over 100 yards with the 44 magnum, and I am very satisfied with the results. Tom.

[Jon K]

Head0001,

*More accurate @ 100 yds? Yes. I have tried and tried 44 mg, 45 LC, 357 Mag. For pinpoint accuracy the 357 will shoot the smallest group @100 or 200M
*Do you think the 357 has enough energy at 100 yards to knock over the marginal hits on silhouette targets?? Yes, I have used the 357 w/180 gr and never rang a ram in the Pistol Ctg Course. I have shot the full size rams @200m with the 180gr@1450-1650 fps and have taken most of the rams. I have rang them at some ranges where even a 30-30 w/180 gr FP @1800 fps will ring a ram. I also feel that the 357 w/180 gr boolits on full sized 200m targets is marginal, and anything less than 180 gr will just bounce off the ram and leave it standing. For Lever Action Silhouette Pistol Cartridge, I thnk the 357 is the most popular used cartridge, and a lot of them using tthe 358156 boolit.

I have never shot a deer with a 357, but I think the 180-190 gr around 1500-1600 fps will get the job done @100 yds with a well placed shot.

Jon

[9.3X62AL]

Interesting info, gents. I would have thought the answer was a toss-up, with the slow twist of the 44 maybe making it a little lacking due to boolit weight restrictions. Thanks for these responses, I'm not real well-versed on the subject--having only owned a couple of the Marlin 94s in 44.

[Jon K]

BTW- Shooting Lever Action Silhouette whether Pistol Ctg or Rifle Ctg. shooting 40, 60 or 80 round matches, you will want something comfortable to shoot for that duration. This is not like shooting a few rounds, recoil will take it's toll on the shooter, when shooting a lot.

Have Fun Shooting,
Jon

[LazyJW]

Do you guys really think the 357 is more accurate than the 44 magnum?? Do you think the 357 has enough energy at 100 yards to knock over the marginal hits on silhouette targets?? I personally believe the 357 is a bit light for deer at 100 yards, but I will be the first to admit that I have never shot a deer at 100 yards with the 357. I have shot several deer over 100 yards with the 44 magnum, and I am very satisfied with the results. Tom.

Inside 100 yards the 357 doesn't give up much compared with a 30-30 as far as the deer can tell. Myself, my wife, and my daughter have used the 357 for many years as the primary deer rifle; it's the only gun the girls have ever used and I find myself going back to it regularly as well.

We have only used jacketed bullets thus far, but 158 grain JSP's penetrate completely and put them down about as well as a 30-30. None have ever ran over 50 yards, most go down in their tracks. I've seen deer hit cleanly with a 30-06 that went just as far. 180 grain bullets really didn't seem to make a lick of difference as far as I could tell.

As far as accuracy, well, the 357 makes you think you are a pretty good handloader; my 44 Mag Marlin makes me think I don't have clue as to what I'm doing and I've been handloading for over 30 years. The 357 is VERY easy to work with in both the Marlin and the Rossi but that Marlin 44 Mag is the single most contrary gun I've ever worked with of any flavor.
Joe

[Old Ironsights]

FWIW, I didn't have any problems with the 100m rams using an 11bhn 358156HPgc over 7gr N340... I think it was running about 1400.

And the 180gr WFNs are death on deer out to 100yds too.

Here's another advantage of the .357... download your 358156s and shoot them over 1.5gr Titegroup Great for short range QUIET practice/small game...

[chickenstripe]

I've loaded the 1894 from 400fps with 210's (social load) to 1750fps with jacketed 158's (deer load). They're more devistating on the other end of the gun than the slight recoil would lead you to believe!

Accuracy: You should be able to get the 357 well under 2" @ 100yds, well within minute of deer!

The only experience I've had are with the 210's on game, nose to tail penetration on a raccoon... more than I expected, but I'm new to this slow and heavy bullet thing! BTW it was about the noise level of a 22.

After reading a bunch of info (other posts) on the 357 from this site, I'm going to try using it foor deer this year... without hesitation.

[Chuck 100 yd]

The .357 is the easiest to get to shoot well in a lever but I have loads that do just as well in the .45 Colt and the .44mag. Just need to do a little more work to find them.

[fecmech]

I just want to post a thank you to all who took the time to reply. I will pass your info on to my friend. Nick

[badgeredd]

FWIW I had a Winchester Trapper in 45 Colt that shot very well out to 100 yds. BUT I did have to fuss with the loads to get er done. I have been wanting a 357 for a long time since I shot a buddy's. It too would shoot about everything we loaded in it. As far as enery for deer, I'd bet that a 357 mag with 180 grainers out of a rifle would have nearly as much as a 44 mag out of a revolver at 100 yds. I have shot a few deer with the 357 in a revolver and several with the 44 also in a revolver. I honestly feel if one does their part to place a good shot, the 357 would do the job.

[Old Ironsights]

Here's the external ballistics of a 190gr C358180RF (180gr+GC+Lube) at 1800fps.

Range (yards) Muzzle 50 100 200 300 400 500
Velocity (fps) 1800 1634 1481 1228 1060 958 884
Energy (ft.-lb.) 1367 1126 925 636 474 387 330
Trajectory (100 yd. zero) -1.5 0.9 0.0 -14.5 -52.2 -119.9 -223.2
Come Up in MOA -1.5 -1.7 0.0 6.9 16.6 28.6 42.6

So, in theory anyway, I'm still hitting with over 900ftlbs at 100yds... under which 90+% of all medium size game (whitetails) are taken.

Plenty for Medium size game and only a little low for Elk size game....

BTW: Here is the .30-30/30WCF data for the original 165gr 1950fps loading...

Range (yards) Muzzle 50 100 200 300 400 500
Velocity (fps) 1950 1827 1710 1494 1308 1161 1057
Energy (ft.-lb.) 1393 1223 1071 817 627 494 409
Trajectory (100 yd. zero) -1.5 0.6 0.0 -10.5 -36.6 -83.2 -155.4
Come Up in MOA -1.5 -1.1 0.0 5.0 11.7 19.9 29.7


It gets a whole 150 "extra" ftlbs at 100 yds... and I can't shove the rounds into my Revolver.

[Boomer Mikey]

Get the Marlin 1894 Cowboy in 357 Magnum and get the older 24" long barrel version if you can find one (longer sight radius).

Boomer

[45r]

I HAVE A 20 INCH 357CB AND A 24 INCH 45CB.I would go with the 357 for competition.Mine has shot 2 inch groups at 100 yards and some even smaller.The shorter barrel helps and I'm thinking about firelapping the 45 colt because it's bore is a little rough when cleaning it.I'm a 45 colt and 454 fan to the max and have been reluctant to mess with the 24 inch CB.It is very well made in fit and finish and I've been babying it.I will have to lap it to make it shoot like the 357.I'd be happy with either one if you can find one for a good price.The 45 colt is way better for hunting and less loud with mid-loads.If I had to own one calibur it would be a colt 45.

[chaos]

I live in West Texas and Kill more than a few feral Hogs.I've taken 14 hogs in the last couple of months with my Super blackhawks . I purchased a Big 5 special "el Cheapo" Marlin 1894 in .44 mag as a tuck gun. I just started casting about 2 weeks ago. The first load that I tried in this gun was my Home cast wheel weights, sized to .430, 243 grains, gas checked over a healthy dose of win 296. The gun clover leafs at 50 yards. I was really scared my gun wouldn't perform without slugging the barrel and a load of other stuff that I've read. Maybe I just got lucky. I have not tried her out at any longer distances, but I dont expect the accuracy to go to pot when I do. As far a recoil? Get a grip... my 10 and 12 year old shot the thing all day long....