can red dot make a Ruger-only 45 colt load?

[kens]

Red Dot and 4198 are too far of extremes for 45LC. RedDot is too fast and 4198 too slow.
For a heavy 45LC load you need something like Herco, Blue Dot, 2400, 4227, maybe even Unique.
I have used 9.0gr Unique, and 15gr 2400, both are stiff loads in 45LC.

Blue Dot, 2400, is the way to go for heavy 45LC loads.

[BCB]

Here’s the reason for the slower powders…

Red Dot—9 grains—max. pressure @ .323” bullet travel—1126 fps—28K
4198—95% load density—max. pressure @ .382” bullet travel—1117 fps—18K
H-110—22 grains—max. pressure @ .782” bullet travel—1129 fps—16K

Pressure is lower for the H-110 load as the bullet travels over twice the distance before maximum pressure is achieved…

These numbers are NOT TO BE USED TO RELOAD A ROUND IN THE 45 COLT—PERIOD. QuickLoad data can be a bit deceptive if just placed on paper. It is a guide and that is basically all it is…

I would definitely forget Red Dot and 4198 for power house loads. There are reasons they aren’t in reloading manuals…

Just my thoughts…

‘Nuff said on my part…

Good-luck…BCB

[Whiterabbit]

Thank you BCB. And all. I will skip red dot. Not sure if 4198 is worth trying just yet for sure or not, but there's no reason not to keep a look out for local sources of bluedot. Very interesting that the model for the slower powder has the pressure peak sooner than the faster powder.

[DrCaveman]

Dont forget "the load" coined by ed harris, 13 grains red dot in military cartridges 35 whelen and larger, with standard weight boolits (if i remember correctly). This is not a low pressure load, probably 30-40kpsi in most guns, but it is pretty well tested to be safe.

I dont see why you couldnt get a nice 20kpsi load that does pretty close to what you want. And the powder really is pretty useful in reduced rifle charges, despite naysayers. I have seen over the years here that you think your loads through pretty well, you should be fine. If i saw a pound, i would grab it.

Not sure about 8 pounds, that would require that i was unable to find any of those other powders mentioned, like imr4227, AA#9, 2400... or of course h110. Fwiw, i used to not like h110...now i really do. Taking a few years off from it has really changed my perspective

[dubber123]

Whiterabbit, where are you located? Perhaps a member could help with your powder problem.

[Vann]

Red Dot is one of my favorite powders for the 45 colt, if you stay within the "OTHER PISTOL" non Ruger only pressures. I have the same 255gr 6 cavity Lee mold and it does very well at around the 900 fps range with Red Dot.

My point being that maybe you should grab a can just to play with until you can stock backup on Blue Dot. I buy all of my powder online and right now pickings are pretty slim.

If you list the other powders in stock I'm sure we can find one suitable for high pressure loads.

[35remington]

Red Dot when loaded prudently is not a derivative of dynamite.

Just be sure to load it within reason and don't ask it to do more than it is capable of doing. As a frequent use powder that gives traditional 45 Colt velocity at low economical charge weights it will be great. Use it like that.

[Geezer in NH]

I load 45 colt to it's traditional speed. I do not load it as a magnum. I want magnum loads I use a 44 mag.

I have not wrecked a gun by the way. Ruger or not want a mag use the mag.

[str8wal]

Ya, I don't think it is that it can't be used, but it's not gonna yield typical "Ruger only" performance and be safe to shoot in said Ruger.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I do. Honestly, I would rather use 4198, but I have a feeling that is way too slow. I prefer not to use H110/296.

I'm curious, why not H110/W296 ?
I think it's ideal for the application you are asking about (Ruger only 45 colt loads).

[Hardcast416taylor]

For a pleasant shooting load using a 255 gr. boolet use 6.5 gr. of Red Dot to about equal the old original factory load of about 900 +/- FPS. This is still a lethal load as I have taken deer with it with a single well placed shot.Robert

[DougGuy]

With heavy for caliber boolits: H110/W296 for 100% magnum loads, i.e. max Ruger Only loads. LilGun, 2400 for 75% ~ 90% magnum loads. Still in the Ruger Only (large frame only) category.

Anything lighter or slower just use Brian Pearce's Tier 2 load data which he published for medium frame Vaquero.

[flint45]

Red dot works great for me in .45 auto and .45 colt but light loads ONLY when I tried to push it alittle more the preassure went up quick.Keep it mild and you will have good results.

[Whiterabbit]

Will skip the red dot for this application. Thanks guys. I appreciate the thoughts.

[Outpost75]

Dont forget "the load" coined by ed harris, 13 grains red dot in military cartridges 35 whelen and larger, with standard weight boolits (if i remember correctly). This is not a low pressure load, probably 30-40kpsi in most guns, but it is pretty well tested to be safe.

I dont see why you couldnt get a nice 20kpsi load that does pretty close to what you want. And the powder really is pretty useful in reduced rifle charges, despite naysayers. I have seen over the years here that you think your loads through pretty well, you should be fine. If i saw a pound, i would grab it.

Not sure about 8 pounds, that would require that i was unable to find any of those other powders mentioned, like imr4227, AA#9, 2400... or of course h110. Fwiw, i used to not like h110...now i really do. Taking a few years off from it has really changed my perspective

Ed never intended The Load to be applied to handgun cartridges like the .45 Colt, that's too much of a stretch.....

[hpdrifter]

since I didn't see anyone directly answer your question about "hot", I'll hazard a statement.

Hot means on the upper end of a particular cartridges SAMMi rating. 30000 doesn't mean squat unless you relate it to a particular cartridge.

Others can correct me if I'm wrong.

[DrCaveman]

Ed never intended The Load to be applied to handgun cartridges like the .45 Colt, that's too much of a stretch.....

Agreed, and i see that my post was unclear. I was just commenting on the use of the powder for relatively high pressure loads with safety.

Of course, "the load" is not very high velocity, and would be a mid-range load at most in the rifle cartridges for which it is recommended. So if a similar approach were taken with the 45 colt, then the best one should hope for would also be mid-range loads (as compared to the Max ruger-only). I guess this might make it suitabable for some "tier 2" load levels as described by Pearce.

Still probably not ideal, but it (might be) a safe, relatively accurate load

[jonp]

I'm with everyone here I guess. I use a lot of Promo/Red Dot for target loads in 9mm, 38sp, 357mag, 45acp and 45Colt but not anything approaching what you are trying to do with that big of a case. It's just too fast I think and you are getting to a realm of spike that could be dangerous with no warning.

[TCLouis]

I don't know about full power load, but 6.1 grains of Red Dot or PROMO will give you about 780 fps with 255 grain boolit out of 6" barrel

[Whiterabbit]

well, as stated before, I'm giving up on red dot as an idea. Tried 4198 though. Every indication is that it would be like loading 50BMG powder in a bottleneck. Safe, just slow, probably dirty. Keep an eye out for ignition issues.

Tried 22, 23, 24, and 25 grains. All safe, all likely ruger-only level based only on perceived recoil. Not as punchy as H110 of course. No ignition issues. I use magnum primers, I don't know if that plays a role.

More testing is needed, but every indication is that 23 grains of IMR4198 under a LEE 255 RF boolit is more accurate than 24 grains H110 or 15 grains of bluedot. Those being the most accurate loads of those powders I have found yet. 24 H110 was my start load (and flattened the primer, didn;t even bother trying 25 and 26), so I loaded up 25 rounds of 23 grains of H110 to try for the next round.

Next range trip is two 25 round groups, using 23 grains each between IMR4198 and H110, head-to-head. Frankly, I am rooting for 4198. (I'll probably toss in the bluedot loads for a control)

I was told 4198 would shoot dirty. I was not disappointed. cases come out like shooting a light load of trailboss. top third of the case blackened. But I can live with a lot if it's the most accurate load.

---------

Rather than pull down the 25 and 26 grain H110 loads, figured I'd just shoot them in the BFR instead. They turned out a bit promising, actually. But not willing to try them in the vaquero. If I want a truly maxed out full house magnum firepower shot, I'll grab the BFR.

Anyways, jury is still out on 4198 truly being more accurate or not. But looks very, very promising so far.