Decided to give PC a try!

[fishingsetx]

I've been looking for a method to reduce/eliminate leading in my Taurus 709 slim for a while now. After trying several different lubes with limited success, I decided to give PC a try. Did my first batch last night with mixed results. The powder used was HF red because I could pick it up local. I tried using the black plastic BB method and it appears to have worked semi OK. The bullets came out very splotchy color wise but they appear to have a clear sheen over the non colored parts. Here is a run down of what I did:

1.). Cast about 200 9mm 124 gr 100% lead bullets using the Lee 6 cavity round nose tumble lube die. I get lead for free but it is pure and not alloy.

2.) Placed about 50 bullets in a mason jar and added enough acetone to cover.

3.) Shook/rolled jar for a few mins to clean any oils off bullets

4.) Poured off excess acetone back into container and poured bullets out onto a clean paper towel to dry

5.) With plastic gloves, placed bullets into rubber made container and added enough bb's to cover.

6.). Put about 2 tsp of powder I. Container, sealed, shook and checked. Didn't coat like I thought it should.

7.) Added another 2 tsp of powder and repeated shaking. Coating looked better.

8.) Carefully removed bullets and placed base down on regular aluminum foil coated pan (all I had).

9.) Baked at 400 I. Preheated oven for 20 mins. Removed and let cool.


Couple of observations.

1.) Regular AF is NOT good for this! Bullets stuck tight and I had to tear the foil to get them off!

2.) Pulling the bullets out of the bin with gloves didn't work for me. Had to use needle nose pliers VERY carefully!

3.) The coating passed the smash test and didn't come off during sizing.

Now for the questions:

1.) What can I do to get a better coating that isn't splotchy?

2.) Could the coating problem be humidity related? I'd guess the outside humidity was in the 70-80% range but I was in my workroom (reloading room) which is semi air conditioned. Probably 40-50% humidity maybe a little more.

3.) Could it just be the cheap HF powder?

4.) Is it possible that the bullets are fully coated and that the pigment just didn't distribute well?

Thanks in advance for all input!

[Maximumbob54]

It doesn't sound like you are shaking them enough. I shake mine just shy of it feeling like I'm about to burst the container. Add some muscle and I stopped having uneven coatings and went to sometimes a bit too much coating. Try parchment paper if you are going to set them one at a time to bake. It's easier and lasts longer. When you want to up the volume you can work out a hardware cloth tray to bake them.

[Walter Laich]

couple of observations /questions:
your container have a 5 inside a triangle on the bottom? Seems 5's are the only ones that work well.
I swirl my bullets in a circle and then shake up and down. I just do one coating/cooking cycle and I'm good to go.
You didn't mention what color you are using. I am using up a bunch of colors--all thrown in together, and they are splotchy but it you look carefully you can tell they are coated. Yellow is specially bad about color distribution.
Smoke's powder works a bit better. Find him in swappin' and sellin' sub-forum
ESSG is the best way for perfect color results--but you can get good coverage just by shaking
are you using about a 1/2 of Air Soft BBs in you container? They really help with coverage.
you are correct that regular AF or TF(tin foil) is not a winner (no chicken dinner). NSAF as well as silicone mat does do wonders.

[fishingsetx]

couple of observations /questions:
your container have a 5 inside a triangle on the bottom? Seems 5's are the only ones that work well.
I swirl my bullets in a circle and then shake up and down. I just do one coating/cooking cycle and I'm good to go.
You didn't mention what color you are using. I am using up a bunch of colors--all thrown in together, and they are splotchy but it you look carefully you can tell they are coated. Yellow is specially bad about color distribution.
Smoke's powder works a bit better. Find him in swappin' and sellin' sub-forum
ESSG is the best way for perfect color results--but you can get good coverage just by shaking
are you using about a 1/2 of Air Soft BBs in you container? They really help with coverage.
you are correct that regular AF or TF(tin foil) is not a winner (no chicken dinner). NSAF as well as silicone mat does do wonders.

HF red for color.

Don't know about the "5" thing. Its just a clear plastic cheap Rubbermaid container for leftovers.

I'm using the black airsoft bb's. I'd guess about 1 to 4 bb's to bullets for this test run with the thought that I could do larger runs with the same container/bb's.

Shaking it violently did seem to provide a better coat than just shaking it. There was a good thick coating on some of the bullets which seemed plenty to me but after baking, it didn't seem to do any better than the thinner coatings. I may end up investing in the HF gun in the future but I'm going to try and get a good coating without it first. Thats why I was asking for advise from the experts!

[bangerjim]

I NEVER waste time and materials cleaning fresh cast boolits. They are clean unless you have uber-greasy hands!

If you covered the boolits with BB's.......that is too many. I start out with about 2 layers of them in either a coolwhip or Zip-Lok screw on container. Never used rubber made! Are those square? Round is what you want.

Add ~TSP of powder. SWIRL for 30-40 seconds round and round. Then - shake up and down for 10-13 seconds. (hence the SCREW-ON lids!!!!!!).

That gives me almost 100% coverage. I pick them up with curved hemostats....better than fingers or needle-nose. Excellent grip....does not disturb the powder.

ALWAYS use NSAF. If you do not have anhy...DO NOT BAKE. You will spend horrid amounts of time picking foil off you boolits. NSAF is a miracle. Just read the foil and make sure you have the NS side up!!!!!

And what COLOR of HF are you using? I would ONLY recommend RED. The yellow and white do not coat well at all. And black is for ONLY ESPC.

Humidity is one of the HUGE variables in the "voodo black magic" process we call BBDT. I live in the SW desert and our RH's are normally low and BBDT works like magic.....most of the time. Many on here in wet climates have trouble with BBDT and the powder sticking. That is why I have 2 ESPC guns. They work all the time ever time. And with matte black!!!!!!

Keep trying. Many of us on here that have worked on developing these techniques have spend many man-hours messing around with many ways. You are fortunate to have all the amassed knowledge and experience of many great members!

bangerjim

[Boogieman]

Rubber made may not be building enough static, I use peanut butter jars. or cool whip containers. tumble & swirl hard . Using HF red I don't wash the boolits or set them up. Just shake & dump them on wire mesh. Bake at 400degrees 20 min. after the powder melts. I'm not using near as much powder as you are. just add a little at a time till I get a good coating. Some boolits stick to the mesh I just brush off hot when they come out of the oven. You may have small marks where they touch the mesh but they will shoot fine.

[fishingsetx]

I NEVER waste time and materials cleaning fresh cast boolits. They are clean unless you have uber-greasy hands!

If you covered the boolits with BB's.......that is too many. I start out with about 2 layers of them in either a coolwhip or Zip-Lok screw on container. Never used rubber made! Are those square? Round is what you want.

Add ~TSP of powder. SWIRL for 30-40 seconds round and round. Then - shake up and down for 10-13 seconds. (hence the SCREW-ON lids!!!!!!).

That gives me almost 100% coverage. I pick them up with curved hemostats....better than fingers or needle-nose. Excellent grip....does not disturb the powder.

ALWAYS use NSAF. If you do not have anhy...DO NOT BAKE. You will spend horrid amounts of time picking foil off you boolits. NSAF is a miracle. Just read the foil and make sure you have the NS side up!!!!!

And what COLOR of HF are you using? I would ONLY recommend RED. The yellow and white do not coat well at all. And black is for ONLY ESPC.

Humidity is one of the HUGE variables in the "voodo black magic" process we call BBDT. I live in the SW desert and our RH's are normally low and BBDT works like magic.....most of the time. Many on here in wet climates have trouble with BBDT and the powder sticking. That is why I have 2 ESPC guns. They work all the time ever time. And with matte black!!!!!!

Keep trying. Many of us on here that have worked on developing these techniques have spend many man-hours messing around with many ways. You are fortunate to have all the amassed knowledge and experience of many great members!

bangerjim

Yes they are square. Picked up a bunch after Christmas on sale for $1 for like 6 of them! I'll try a different container and less bb's.

Yea I figured I'd have some issues with not using NSAF but I wanted to test the coating so I used what I had. Same with the needle nose. I'll be buying hemostats and NSAF

I stated I used HF red in my OP. I read that it was the only one that worked good in another post.

I may have to invest in a ESPC gun. Our humidity is normally in the 80-90% I. The summer and 50-60% in winter! Is the HF gun "good enough"?

For my first attempt, they came out OK but not what I would consider great. I'll keep tinkering with it, just wanted to get some advice from the guys that had worked through some of the problems.

I also need to get a dedicated oven before proceeding. Is a Walmart special cheap toaster oven "good enough"?

[fishingsetx]

May also hit some garage sales for a toaster oven tomorrow!

[Beagle333]

The HF gun is definitely good enough. It will make perfect boolits every time. I use one almost exclusively, because the humidity here really affect my coatings if I try to tumble. Some can make it (tumbling) work in humidity, but my efforts have been frustrating.

A toaster oven will do the job if you can regulate the temp to keep it floating within about 15-20° either side of 400°. Ideally you want it at 400° for ten minutes after the coating starts to cure (gloss over.)
A convection oven/toaster is much better at keeping the heat evenly distributed, but also does need to be regulated closely. I suggest a baking thermometer to learn/monitor the temp in the oven.

[Love Life]

Rubbermaid containers work just fine.

Proof: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...at-Shenanigans

[bangerjim]

The OP should buy SEVERAL styles and makes of containers to find what works best for his style of shaking and his horribly high humidity. I have always had excellent success with ROUND #5's, even during a rainstorm here in AZ. Tried square and rectangular with not as good a coating.

Since he is just starting out, he should consider ALL options and decide which works best for him. Most have had excellent success with ROUND coolwhip or Zip-lok screw-on containers because the boolits do not bang together at the square corners. With high humidity and the very low static potential built up anyway created with BBDT, he needs all the coating help he can get!

OP - many of us have found out that even though a boolit is not 100% covered in the bowl, the powder melts and runs together when baked 400F for 10 min in your oven. You have to have some pretty BIG divots to have lead showing after baking. Main thing is to not have bare lead on the tops of the grease grooves.

Have fun in your new endevour......it DOES work!

banger

[bangerjim]

Many use standard El-cheeeepo ovens. I threw 2 of them away in the dump ($7 each at goodwill) after melted and saggy boolits and under done coatings. Went with a $100 or so quality convection-style oven and have perfect bakes now. I am fortunate that my oven dial is within 5° of the actual temp in the cavity. Do not trust the dial...check your oven with a good oven thermometer.

You may get by with a cheeeeep standard oven. Ya' pays yer money, 'ya takes yer chances. We know convection ovens do work much better. Even when baking food!

banger

[Love Life]

Using a Kestrel Weather meter to measure humidity over the time I have been coating with PC and HT, from 17% in Nevada to over 90% in Georgia, the humidity has not been a determining factor in whether or not my bullets coated well. Come to think of it, I'd say 90% of my coating sessions have been successful regardless of humidity, temperature, time of day, moon phase, etc.

I kept those notes too...

I would credit operator error as the main reason behind the majority of issues people experience powder coating and HI-TEK coating.

Heck, I still use a $30 walmart convection oven.


OP- If your bullets passed the smash test, and are reasonably well coated, then you will probably be met with success. Just keep in mind that fit is still very important to the whole equation.

[1911KY]

Here is my clear PC bowl for a reference:


Round bowls will create more friction/static when swirling.

I have recently changed my swirling technique and it seems to coat no matter how humid it is. Yesterday it was above 60% humidity and I was getting great coverage.

I stand my bowl on its side and press in on the lid and the bottom and swirl the contents around the sides of the bowl like a rolling wheel. I do it extremely hard and fast for about 10 seconds. Works like a charm.

I will make a video of my process and get it posted. That should help answer a lot of the questions we see.

[jcren]

Powder quality deffiniantly effects color and ease of coverage, hit smoke up, can't beat his trial pack for good results for the money. I use some round and some square tubs and actually prefer the square ones. I live in central Oklahoma and humidity is frequently over 80%, I have even coated on the porch while it was raining, and didn't have any trouble getting good coverage. Keep at it, you will get much better results over the next few attempts.

[1911KY]

Powder quality deffiniantly effects color and ease of coverage, hit smoke up, can't beat his trial pack for good results for the money. I use some round and some square tubs and actually prefer the square ones. I live in central Oklahoma and humidity is frequently over 80%, I have even coated on the porch while it was raining, and didn't have any trouble getting good coverage. Keep at it, you will get much better results over the next few attempts.

How do you swirl a square container? I would think it would knock the powder off each time it hits a flat surface.

[fishingsetx]

Using a Kestrel Weather meter to measure humidity over the time I have been coating with PC and HT, from 17% in Nevada to over 90% in Georgia, the humidity has not been a determining factor in whether or not my bullets coated well. Come to think of it, I'd say 90% of my coating sessions have been successful regardless of humidity, temperature, time of day, moon phase, etc.

I kept those notes too...

I would credit operator error as the main reason behind the majority of issues people experience powder coating and HI-TEK coating.

Heck, I still use a $30 walmart convection oven.


OP- If your bullets passed the smash test, and are reasonably well coated, then you will probably be met with success. Just keep in mind that fit is still very important to the whole equation.

Hopefully I can find a method that works in our humidity! Here is what it is today!

[bangerjim]

We don't even see that kind of RH even right after a rainstorm!!!!!!

I guess that is why they call it a desert?!?!?!? We call 50+ DP our "monsoon season". And that DP is generally around 110F or more!

banger

[fishingsetx]

We don't even see that kind of RH even right after a rainstorm!!!!!!

I guess that is why they call it a desert?!?!?!? We call 50+ DP our "monsoon season". And that DP is generally around 110F or more!

banger

Oh yea and I should probably mention, its the dryest around here that it has been since September!!!!!!!!

[1911KY]

Swirl real hard!!!!