The 1911 will live on and on. I shoot .45acp 1911 one Colt and a Springfield 1911A1. I'm not into the Technical Tupperware Guns being old school at 59 plastic belongs on squirt guns. this was not said to stir the pot just my thoughts.
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The 1911 will live on and on. I shoot .45acp 1911 one Colt and a Springfield 1911A1. I'm not into the Technical Tupperware Guns being old school at 59 plastic belongs on squirt guns. this was not said to stir the pot just my thoughts.
Sounds like a rehash of the 1980's gun rag articles " Who Needs the .30-06", ".308 vs .3006" ".30-30 is obsolete" "9mm vs. .45 acp" .44 mag is obsolete ant the latest tactical sniper, milspec, Spetznatz, Waffen SS like (insert name or type of gun) is the pinnacle of firearms achievement and all your current guns are no good anymore.
Don't subscribe to them things anymore.
Paper targets aren't your friends. They won't lie for you and they don't care if your feelings get hurt.
No they are not. Some of the fancier models can be, but there are a few very good 1911s that can be had for around $400-$500 brand new.Originally Posted by kens
Because they sell like hot cakes. S&W, Ruger, Remington, and Springfield Armory all make them too because they are popular and they sell.Just look at SigSaur, they are a world renowned gun maker in their own right, and even THEY are cloning the 1911.
Why does Sig have to clone a 1911 when they got their own good stuff??????
Are they worth the price? ABSOLUTELY. Flattery? No. It's one of the best designs in history, and is one of the most popular guns as well. People want them, so they will continue to sell like crazy.Is the 1911 just so good that it still justifies the price?
Is it flattery that it is still cloned so much?
This would come as a surprise to various special force teams and the FBI Hostage Rescue unit that still use the 1911.
MEU SOC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MEU(SOC)_pistol
http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/meusoc.htm
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...m45-colt-1911/
http://defensetech.org/2005/11/16/sm...d-what-a-hoax/
http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=3563
For "serious" use by the true professionals the 1911 is still very popular choice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1911_pistol
Current users in the United States[edit]
Many military and law enforcement organizations in the United States and other countries continue to use (often modified) M1911A1 pistols including Marine Corps Special Operations Command, Los Angeles Police Department SWAT. and L.A.P.D. S.I.S., the FBI Hostage Rescue Team, F.B.I. regional S.W.A.T. teams, and 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment—Delta (Delta Force).
A basic version of Smith & Wesson's SW1911 with user-installed Pachmayr grips.
M1911 by Springfield Armory, Inc. (contemporary remake of the World War II G.I. Model, parkerized).
The M1911A1 is popular among the general public in the United States for practical and recreational purposes. The pistol is commonly used for concealed carry thanks in part to a single-stack magazine (which makes for a thinner pistol that is therefore easier to conceal), personal defense, target shooting, and competition. Numerous aftermarket accessories allow users to customize the pistol to their liking. There are a growing number of manufacturers of M1911-type pistols and the model continues to be quite popular for its reliability, simplicity, and patriotic appeal. Various tactical, target, and compact models are available. Price ranges from a low end of around $400 for basic pistols imported from the Philippines or Turkey (Armscor, Tisas, Rock Island Armory, Girsan, STI Spartan, Seraphim Armoury) to more than $4,000 for the best competition or tactical versions (Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, Les Baer, Nighthawk Custom, and STI International).[22]
Due to an increased demand for M1911 pistols among Army Special Operations units, who are known to field a variety of M1911 pistols, the Army Marksmanship Unit began looking to develop a new generation of M1911s and launched the M1911-A2 project in late 2004.[2] The goal was to produce a minimum of seven variants with various sights, internal and external extractors, flat and arched mainspring housings, integral and add-on magazine wells, a variety of finishes and other options, with the idea of providing the end-user a selection from which to select the features that best fit their missions.[2] The AMU performed a well received demonstration of the first group of pistols to the Marine Corps at Quantico and various Special Operations units at Ft. Bragg and other locations.[2] The project provided a feasibility study with insight into future projects.[2] Models were loaned to various Special Operations units, the results of which are classified. An RFP was issued for a Joint Combat Pistol but it was ultimately canceled.[2] Currently units are experimenting with an M1911 platform in .40 which will incorporate lessons learned from the A2 project. Ultimately, the M1911A2 project provided a test bed for improving existing M1911s. An improved M1911 variant becoming available in the future is a possibility.[2]
The Springfield Custom Professional Model 1911A1 pistol is produced under contract by Springfield Armory for the FBI regional SWAT teams and the Hostage Rescue Team.[23] This pistol is made in batches on a regular basis by the Springfield Custom Shop, and a few examples from most runs are made available for sale to the general public at a selling price of approximately US$2,700 each.
MEU(SOC) pistol[edit]
Main article: MEU(SOC) pistol
Marine Expeditionary Units formerly issued M1911s to Force Recon units.[24] Hand-selected Colt M1911A1 frames were gutted, deburred, and prepared for additional use by the USMC Precision Weapon Section (PWS) at Marine Corps Base Quantico.[24] They were then assembled with after-market grip safeties, ambidextrous thumb safeties, triggers, improved high-visibility sights, accurized barrels, grips, and improved Wilson magazines.[25] These hand-made pistols were tuned to specifications and preferences of end users.[26]
In the late 1980s, the Marines laid out a series of specifications and improvements to make Browning's design ready for 21st century combat, many of which have been included in MEU (SOC) pistol designs, but design and supply time was limited.[26] Discovering that the Los Angeles Police Department was pleased with their special Kimber M1911 pistols, a single source request was issued to Kimber for just such a pistol despite the imminent release of their TLE/RLII models.[27] Kimber shortly began producing a limited number of what would be later termed the Interim Close Quarters Battle pistol (ICQB). Maintaining the simple recoil assembly, 5-inch barrel (though using a stainless steel match grade barrel), and internal extractor, the ICQB is not much different from Browning's original design.[27]
In late July 2012, the U.S. Marines placed a $22.5 million order for 12,000 M1911 pistols for MEU(SOC) forces.[4] The new 1911 was designated M45A1 or "Close Quarters Battle Pistol" CQBP. The M45A1 features a dual recoil spring assembly, Picatinny rails and is cerakoted tan in color.
http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/s...-21st-century/
http://www.colt.com/Catalog/LawEnfor...CQBPM45A1.aspx
http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/s...-m1911-45-acp/
Yep --- no serious use for the 1911 anymore!!!!!!!!
Last edited by M-Tecs; 06-08-2015 at 10:46 PM.
Can I buy some crack from you?
The reliability claim is complete and total BS. I've seen plenty of Glocks fail big time. The only time my 1911 has failed is from either bad ammo, or a bad magazine, neither of which were the gun's fault. Obsolete? Here's a little something I'm sure you'll hate. Here's a link that lays out which guns sell best on gunbroker. Guess what? The Glock hasn't been #1 in sales in quite some time. The 1911 almost always outsells it on the worlds largest online gun market place. If it's so obsolete, then why it is outselling Glock?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Content/Top...op-5-Guns.html
2013
December
1911 - #2 (Colt)
Glock - Not in top 5
2014
January
1911 - #5 (Colt)
Glock - #4 (42)
February
1911 - #2 (Sig), #3 (Colt)
Glock - Not in top 5
(change in format)
March
1911 - #1 new (Sig), #1 used (Colt)
Glock - Not in top 5 new, #3 used (22)
April
1911 - #1 new (Sig), #1 used (Colt)
Glock - Not in top 5 new, #4 used (22)
May
1911 - #1 new (Sig), #1 used (Colt)
Glock - Not in top 5 new, #3 used (22)
June
1911 - #1 new (Sig), #1 used (Colt)
Glock - Not in top 5 new, #3 used (17)
July
1911 - #1 new (Sig), #1 used (Colt)
Glock - #5 new (19), #2 used (22)
August
1911 - #3 new (Sig), #1 used (Colt)
Glock - #4 new (19), #5 used (22)
September
1911 - #2 new (Sig), #1 used (Colt)
Glock - Not in top 5 new, #5 used (22)
October
1911 - #2 new (Sig), #1 used (Colt)
Glock - Not in top 5 new, #3 used (22)
November
1911 - #2 new (Sig), #5 new (Colt), #1 used (Colt)
Glock - Not in top 5 new, #4 used (22)
December
1911 - #2 new (Sig), #3 new (Para), #2 used (Colt)
Glock - #4 new (19), #4 used (22)
2015
January
1911 - #2 new (Sig), #2 used (Colt)
Glock - #4 new (19), #4 used (22)
February
1911 - #3 new (Sig), #2 used (Colt)
Glock - #5 new (19), #5 used (22)
March
1911 - #4 new (Colt), #1 used (Colt)
Glock - Not in top 5 new, #3 used (22)
April
1911 - #5 new (Colt), #2 used (Colt)
Glock - Not in top 5 new, #3 used (22)
I went shooting the other day with a young coworker. He went to set up the target and ask how far out I wanted it, I replied 25 yards. He said I was crazy and there was no way I could be any king of accurate from there. Well I pulled out the Ruger 1911 and proceded to lay 7 in about a 5 inch group standing. He could not believe it as his glock could put only a few on paper. I handed him the 1911 and his 7 were not as tight as mine but all were on the paper. He is now looking for one of those "old obosolete" 1911s.
Some insights as to the "WHY" the 1911 continues to be popular:
1. "IT'S A WEAPON, STUPID!!!" Virtually every handgun designed since WWI incorporates one or several mechanisms intended to keep the ignorant, inattentive, careless, or complacent individual from putting a hole in someone or something he doesn't intend to. Even the 1911 gives a nod to this class of folks in the form of the grip safety. The difference is that while the first and foremost design criteria of the 1911 was to produce a durable and reliable tool with which to blow the enemy out of his socks, the stuff that came later placed a greater concern on coddling the non-warrior, rear-echelon types. By itself, this would not be a bad thing, but the approaches commonly taken - most notably double-action or "safe-action" triggers that perform functions over and above firing the weapon - result in a gun that, while perhaps harder to accidentally fire, is harder to hit what you're aiming for. It may be urban legend, but there's a story of a Russian soldier who came to America after the USSR breakup and became a firearm instructor. On explaining the operational doctrine of the Tokarev to a class, one student said "that sounds pretty dangerous" at which point the instructor said "Is GUN!!! SUPPOSED to be dangerous!!" Can't say it much better than that. The 1911 pre-dates a world ruled by lawyers, and as such, hasn't had it's edge blunted.
2. What you are likely to break, you can probably fix. Consider the world into which the 1911 was born. No faxing orders so you can get spare parts on the next C17. First off, it was designed for that reality and is a tank because of it, unlike the current milquetoast of the planned-obsolescence age where it just has to hang around for ten years. In that day, if you had spare parts on hand from Colt, great. If not, your unit's got horses, right? Those horses need a blacksmith, right? It may not have been very likely that you'd have a guy pounding out a replacement extractor over a coal furnace and spring-tempering it, but the fact is the talent pool was there, and the design would allow for it.
3. Service life. So many of the modern guns generally inspired by the tilting barrel Browning system tout the removal of the barrel bushing and link as "improvements". Guess what relatively cheap parts you can replace to improve the 1911's lockup, or keep it acceptable as the pistol wears? Yep. . . they "improved" it all right; it costs them (the manufacturers) less to make a gun that you (the customer) will have to replace more often. Great improvement for their bottom line. For you and me, not so much.
WWJMBD?
In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.
The Glock is for those who do not have the capacity or will to learn how to operate a real pistol.
But, I repeat myself.
I've had a Glock. I'd rather have a Hi Point.
The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"
Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!
First group out of a newly assembled WWII era GI .45 from $400 worth of assorted parts:
This is only a 10yd group fired two hands standing but hey not bad for a WWII era gun. 6" paper saucer. Stiff, gritty, unmodified trigger.
Last edited by DougGuy; 06-09-2015 at 02:20 PM.
Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh cylinder that needs the "step" reamed to 6° 30min chamfer? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.
Its a good gun if you can afford the $2700 they quote for a decent one and have an Armory to keep them running. Plus can handle only having 8 rounds on tap.
When I was in, it was when they were realizing that the old ones were getting worn out and needed replacing, but before the big contracts they have now, so we were "sourcing" them from outside our armories, and allowed to choose our own based on individual preferences. I went through two issued 1911s before getting approval to buy my own. They were a Remington Rand and a Singer Sewing Machine, bpth made during WW2, and both were worn out. What I loved was our command gave us the option of paying for our own up front and then keeping it when we got out, which is what some of us did. It had multiple benefits. We got to choose and then keep our weapons, and the command got to see a variety of 1911s in different brands and configurations and see what worked and what didn't, since the only hard rule we were given was that they had to be in either 9mm or .45 to make ammo resupply easier. In a Bn of 300 troops, just shy of 100 of us chose to buy our own, and less than 10 chose the 9mm--and by the time my enlistment was over, everyone had switched to a .45. I still have my Springfield 1911A1 Loaded, and it kept me alive everywhere I got sent, and now it goes on duty with me on patrol, and off duty when out and about. It has a bit over 100K rounds through it, and I have never needed an armorer to work on it or keep it running. It is stock with the exception of replacing the necessary springs as required for general maintenance and a trigger job I did myself to bring the trigger down to 1.5#. It may have cost me a months pay when I bought it, but considering what it has gone through and gotten me through, I would call that a cheap price, and I definitely got my money's worth out of it.
Now for what it's worth, going through the police academy with my 1911, I had classmates who refused to get on the firing line next to me because of their belief that my "antique *** would blow up and kill us" and just wasn't safe like their Glocks. I'd just smile and say I'll take my chances and the instructors would just tell them that mine will be running long after theirs quit. So it was amusing when their brand new Glocks failed and needed the department armorer to fix them, and in one case replace the gun, while my beat up 1911 that had been through several deployments never jammed or had any other issues, unless you count me being a bit busier reloading than the Glock shooter were, but keeping up with their rate of fire and beating them in accuracy. Now to be fair, on the final qualification before graduation, I got a 99% score with my 1911, which put me in second place behind a Marine using a M9 who got a 100%, with 3rd place going to a Glock shooter with an 89% score. I met up with him recently, and we were both still carrying the same exact guns that we used in the old days, so if it ain't broke, why fix it?
I passed my last psych eval, how bout you?
The one I carried on deployments cost me about $900, and is still running just fine to this day, without the need for an armorer, unless you consider me an armorer, which is a title I have never held.
I passed my last psych eval, how bout you?
Army Rejects M9A3 Proposal, Opts for New Pistol http://www.military.com/daily-news/2...ew-pistol.html
http://bearingarms.com/army-wants-ne...way-can-now/2/
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2...ng-pistol.html
I would gladly give those "obsolete" 1911's a home in my safe! Not a big polymer gun fan either.
I would be happy to provide a retirement home for them also....
I am sure the retirement would include an adequate exercise program..
Yes along with baths by hand and nice oil rub downs!
Yes along with baths by hand and nice oil rub downs!
Classic!!!!
Welp, I am realatively young compared to many who post here (34) and 1911's are all I buy. I have bought 6 in the past year and half. So, if you ask me they are more than alive, they are kickin harder than ever.
Love my railed Specialist, with a 10 rd mag and rail light you have the perfect home defense pistol.
Anybody who who says the 1911 is dead, has never shot a Les Baer! Real workhorse pistol.
Many, many gunsmiths are scratchin out a livin based solely on the 1911.
"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samuel Adams
COTEP CBOB0736
Whoever told you that you need to spend even remotely that much for a good 1911 is either a liar, or ignorant about 1911s.
That is just plain BS. And what is the big deal about "only" having 8 rounds on tap when you can put all 8 inside 3" @ 25 yards. Spray and pray is the mantra for tupperware guns.Its a good gun if you can afford the $2700 they quote for a decent one and have an Armory to keep them running. Plus can handle only having 8 rounds on tap.
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| C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
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