Pewter instead of tin for lyman #2?

[Defcon-One]

Yep, Lyman #2 is 15 BHN, air cooled.

Hardball gets you there with less Tin, but it is more brittle and a bit harder to cast with. I supplied information for Lyman #2 because that is what he asked for. It is a bit more Tin than you would normally need, but it works great for me in my rifle bullets from .223 to 45-70, with or without gas checks. A balance of Tin and Antimony is also conventional wisdom (Tougher Bullets!).

For my handgun bullets, where I tend to load and shoot a higher volume, I use 2% Sn, 3% Sb, 95% Pb exclusively.

Enjoy,

DC-1


PS: I am not a believer in Water Dropping for hardness. I do not think that it is worth the trouble. I just mix an alloy for the hardness that I want, air cooled, and go. So, I can't help you there.....

[RogerDat]

Conventional wisdom as I understand it (wife will bear witness, I misunderstand much) 2% Sn is all that is required for fill out, but that Sn alloys with Sb in a way that helps enhance the hardening of either metal as compared to on it's own when going for a harder bullet.

COWW's are 2.5 to 3% Sb and with 2% Sn it is as hard as one will need for general use. More tin won't really get you anything in that alloy. Anything above the Sb percentage is pretty much wasted. WW's being the common point of reference = conventional wisdom =< 2% Sn.

If you kick the Sb up to go harder then adding more tin keeps the Sb/Sn alloy in better balance. And helps prevent the alloy from becoming a fragile bullet. You can't bend linotype very far before it snaps because of the 12% Sb making it "hard".

Hardball is 1/2 the Sn/Sb of linotype with BHN of 16, doubling those alloys gives you lino and gets you to BHN of 19, not a lot of gain for a whole lot more expensive alloy BUT if it takes that little bit harder to work for the load.... at least the bullet won't break if you drop it, because of the higher tin percentage keeping it ductile rather than just hard from the Sb. High BHN alloys conventional wisdom is based on a different base alloy, also a common "go to" source being used to meet needs toward the edge conditions. Conventional wisdom is enough tin to not have a bullet that hard break.

One of the reasons for my question is water dropping or the more precise heat treating method both seems like a way to make bullet harder but not more fragile for the same alloy. If I can use a less rich alloy but water drop for 44 mag then I would go that route rather than casting with straight linotype.

[Defcon-One]

Yeah, I agree 100%.

Only thing, I would not cast with straight Linotype, way too hard for me and costly as well, but I get your point on the Water Dropping. I cast for fun and to save money, but I never needed to save bad enough to Water Drop. That's just me....

DC-1

[RogerDat]

We kind of went off on a rabbit trail DC-1 but having read about heat treating and water dropping I see some interesting testing and experimenting has been done. I figure it is part of due diligence to explore all the options. Or maybe I'm just not happy unless I'm poking around something new?

[mongoose33]

Don't get lost in the weeds on trying to make "lyman #2"!

That is an old alloy referenced in the old books anyway and many today do not even use it, what with all the coatings available such as Hi-Tec and powder coating.

Close enough is close enough.

A % either way is not going to make that much difference.

Save your time and money and shoot more softer lead!

I was all hepped up on getting the exact alloy right, then I did some testing out of a couple pistols (I only cast boolits for handguns at this point), and discovered they all shot about the same. Varied powder, varied sizing, all pretty much the same.

I have the Cabine Tree hardness tester and so when I'm whomping up a new batch of alloy in my 20# pot, I'll cast a couple boolits to test at the outset to see if I'm "in the range." Air cooled, dropped on a towel. Something that produces BHN 12-15 is what I want, I usually end up about 12-13.

If I'm too soft on the alloy i just toss (figuratively!) an ingot of Lino in the pot and that takes care of it.

I've started powdercoating and that's how they're finished, so perhaps this would matter more if I were just lubing them.