Please help with selecting alloy for cape buffalo with .577 NE. (585 FH)

[WBG]

Hello to all,

I have Lyman #2 alloy to cast bullets in .585 for cape buffalo. I am concerned that the 5% -6% antimony will make the bullet too brittle.

(I have been reading too much and the more I read the less I know!)

This will be my first cape buffalo hunt with cast bullets. I have killed one cape bull with a NorthFork Cup Point Solid and one with a Cutting Edge Bullet solid, both in .375 HH. Expansion was minimal on the NF CPS and zero on the CEB Solid.

I hope to get my cast .585 bullets to hold together in the same way, through bone and flesh, with minimal expansion.

1. Do you think that Lyman #2 is the right alloy for this or might the bullet shatter/break?
2. If I need to reduce the antimony content, what is the best way to do it? Just add pure lead?

I sure appreciate any help I can get. Opinions on this seem to be all over the place.

Thanks, Brian

[jmort]

94/3/3 heat treated to 22 bhn will stabilize at 21 bhn and will not be brittle and will stay together.

[WBG]

Thanks. That makes sense.
So, I'm about to ask ask an annoying question; Can you advise me on how to make Lyman #2 (90/5/5) into 94/3/3 ?
Thanks again, Brian

[jmort]

Add some pure lead. Use the alloy calculator on this site. Sounds like a great adventure.

[WBG]

Excellent. That is what I wanted to know. Thanks very much for your time and help. Brian

PS. Yes, a cape buffalo hunt will help you get your mind off of other things. My first cape buffalo hunt had some giggles in it, as well as plain old fright. The short story got published in the Jan, 2015 issue of African Hunting Gazette. It called "Abrahams Grin."

PPS. "Location: Hoping To Move" I like that!

[jmort]

I will look that article up. Yes, I need to move to a gun friendly location.

[popper]

http://www.lasc.us/chamberlainleadtoughnesstesting.htm
Interesting notes on lead alloys for boolits.
Still haven't found anything relating to the 'old' #2, purpose or info for development & use.
According the the charts, everything begins to deform at BHN of 19-20 @ ~6 #-ft of energy.
Haven't found anything about Cu or Ag hardened boolits but from my experience with them, they are tough & hard.

[WBG]

Good info! Thanks. I forgot about that excellent article. Everything I need to know is right there. I think that adding pure lead and/or tin to Hard Ball, Linotype, etc. to get the right mix, must be just simple math. ( percentages.) I will do the math. Thanks, Brian

[WBG]

We got it nailed with the good links that you sent me. It's official: 4% antimony and 3-4% tin for a good tough bullet. Can heat treat from there if needed but it's probably not necessary.

This is interesting for me. Back in the days of lead shot for migratory birds we were making long shots on geese with the best/hardest shot we could buy. It was 4% antimony. We used open chokes and got short dense shot patterns. Far superior to softer lead with tight chokes. Thanks again, Brian

[Bigslug]

I haven't "scienced" it out to the degree that others have, but tend to agree that metal in the general alloy category of water quenched / heat-treated wheel weight in the 22-24 BHN range has some monstrous penetration potential - as evidenced by my own .45 ACP experiments - check out post #2 of the following: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ed-The-LBT-LFN

THIS link: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...netration-Test shows some of the expansion characteristics of "old school" 20-1 lead/tin. I would not use that alloy for the monster you plan to hunt, but 10-1 would give a tough slug offering SOME expansion. Penetrated very well for the Whitworth sniper rifles of old. I may test that very thing one of these days, but it's gonna take. . .a while to accumulate that many milk jugs. Six or seven ain't gonna cut it.

[WBG]

Thanks, that is useful. Brian

[tonyjones]

WBG,

Mix your Lyman #2 50/50 with pure Pb. That will give you 95/2.5/2.5. Water drop from a hot mould or oven heat treat. Age your bullets at least a month for them to fully harden. If you add a grain modifer like arsenic the aging process can be cut to 1 to 2 weeks.

Scroll down any page of this site to the LASC banner and click. There's lots of good info there including an article by Rick Kelter on heat treating and lead alloy recipes for alloys including adding arsenic to your melt with lead shot. You only need a bit of arsenic. 0.1 to 0.2% is plenty. Less will work and more than 0.2 to 0.25% is too much.

Tony

[WBG]

Tony, Thanks! That is excellent and specific advice/help for me. I didn't know about adding arsenic. For sure, I will read the references that you suggest.

Thanks again, I am having a ball getting this going.

Brian

[tonyjones]

Brian,

Also at the LASC site is an article by Wiljen, The Myth of Arsenic. It is a very good explanation of the use of grain modifiers. Use an alloy (shot) that has arsenic in it. Do NOT try to add elemental arsenic. It is extremely toxic and hazardous. Leave that to the foundary.

Tony

[WBG]

Thanks Tony, Good job. I will check it out. Brian

[Geezer in NH]

Cape Buff?? I would use a turned copper slug with an HP full of lead. Or get a much bigger rifle if you truly want to use boolit

[WBG]

Cape Buff?? I would use a turned copper slug with an HP full of lead. Or get a much bigger rifle if you truly want to use boolit

You think? Is that what you have used on them? I have hunted Cape Buffalo twice before. Both close range one shot kills with a 375 HH. First was with NorthFork Cup Point Solid, second was with a Cutting Edge Bullet solid. Next one will be with 585 FH cast bullet. 650 gr at 2100 fps. Brian

[Defcon-One]

In case you want to check your math, my calculator says that:

10 lbs. of Lyman #2 plus 6.65 lbs. of Pure Lead will get you 3% Sn, 3% Sb, 94% Pb!

10 lbs. of Lyman #2 plus 2.49 lbs. of Pure Lead will get you 4% Sn, 4% Sb, 92% Pb!

I think that is what you asked for....

DC-1

[WBG]

DC-1 Thankyou! That's it. I was losing my confidence on this. I really wanted some proof that I was doing it right. You provided it for me. Much appreciated, Brian

[jmort]

There is no way that a heat treated bullet as discussed will not smoke anything on earth, but if you want a copper solid in .585"
https://cuttingedgebullets.com/cgi-b...&category=4585