IDEAL #360363 Information?

[xtimberman]

I have an unusual Ideal mould with attached handles that I can't find listed in any of my older Lyman Cast Bullet Handbooks.

Ideal 360363 is a nose-pour SC mould with a 3-way adjustable hollow-base plug. It casts conical bullets of ~125gr., 135gr. and 145gr. with a single grease groove - and is not a "heeled" design with rebated base.

I've had the mould for 25+ years and have used it to cast conicals for a .36 Navy percussion, for a .35-30 Maynard, and for an undersized .38 Ballard Long.

Do any of you fellas have a listing for this mould in an old Ideal catalog or handbook and/or knowledge of what cartridge it was originally used for?

xtm

[Bent Ramrod]

xtimberman,

From your description it's the same as the 358363 in the first Lyman Handbook of Cast Bullets. "Cartoon bullet" nose, shallow hollow base, one lube groove and one tiny dirt-relief groove ahead of the front band as the ogive starts. According to the Handbook, it's for short-range use in the .38 Spl. with 2 gr Bullseye.

Sometimes the "nominal diameter" part of the mould number changed over the years; typically getting larger but not always. Floodgate is the expert on these things, and will probably check in soon with the evolutionary details.

That's a rare mould.

[xtimberman]

Yes, the bullet does look mighty similar to 358363 - in it's shortest configuration. My Handbook says it weighs 70 grains. I think mine weighs more than that - maybe not though.

Thanks! This is more information than I've ever been able to get on it in many years of asking. I'll try to post a photo in the next few days.

It casts a dandy bullet for making up little paper cartridges for a .36 Navy.

xtm

[floodgate]

xtimberman: (ex-logger???)

Bent Ramrod has it right (he is referring to the 1953 First Edition Lyman "Handbook of Cast Bullets"); it is an older mould introduced in 1911, and - with the blocks integral with the handles - was made during the period Marlin made the Ideal line (1910 - 1915). Lyman continued it, after they revived the Ideal line in 1925, it in the loose-block moulds up to 1953; but it is listed by them at 70 grains, so doesn't quite jibe with your description. Is the base-plug step-adjustable to the different lengths, or continuous, via a threaded stem as with the older "Perfection" adjustable moulds (which had been dropped several years before Marlin took over)?
Does the moving base plug expose more grease grooves as it is lowered? I'd VERY MUCH like to see photos of it, if you can arrange it.

Doug Elliott/floodgate

EDIT: Looks like my post overlapped your second one. Anyhow, show us some pics!

Fg

[xtimberman]

O.K., here are two low-quality photos I hastily took of Ideal #360363. The picture on the left shows the mould set up in the "medium" position - the one I've most often used. The photo on the right shows two of the "adjustment" holes on that block that can vary the position of the base plug. As you see, it is step-adjustable with two holes for the base plug retaining stud on one side and a single hole on the other. Likely that someone added a hole on each block half to try to make the mould more versatile?

Also, I'm bound to be off on those weights I stated in the first post - but I didn't have any examples on hand to weigh (sorry!). I don't believe I've ever cast a bullet with it that weighed as little as 70gr., but I've slept several times since then, though.

Thanks again for this great information!

xtm

[floodgate]

xtimberman:

Great shots! Does the base plug still retain the raised nub to form a hollow base? This method was used in early Ideal HB moulds to form a shallow base dimple; a simplified adaptation of the threaded nut for the "Perfection" moulds, and I have seen shots of early Lyman shallow-HB moulds made the same way, with the screw a bit loose to allow the cast bullet to be shaken free of the mould. I have also seen versions with a reversible flat-base plug , the screw hole in the plug being off-center to allow two different lengths, by reversing the plug.

In the absence of additional grease grooves such as provided inthe Perfections, I believe you are correct: that in this case the owner modified an original 70-gr. Ideal HB mould by adding two more screw (? or stud) holes, one in each block, further down, to get a choice of longer bullets.

And your use of these in the Maynard and Ballard, as well as in the .36 C&B, is most interesting!

Thanks for sharing. Would you mind if i use your photos in a future writeup (credit given, of course, if you will PM me your name)?

floodgate

[xtimberman]

Yep, if you look closely, you can see the raised nub on the base plug in the L. photo - makes a dimple in the base. The screw/stud does fit loosely and allows for movement of the base plug when the mould is opened - but the thing is still a #$%&* to get a bullet to drop.

Of course you can use the photos. I'll take some better ones with a proper background if you like. Send me a PM if you need me to do this.

Thanks again for the info.

xtm

[STP]

xtimberman,

You say you cast some 145gr for a Maynard...

I`d really like to know the as cast diameter you got and the alloy you used if you have that info.

STP

[xtimberman]

The .35-30 Maynard we're talking about slugged at ~.360", and my standard bullet alloy for Maynard rifles has been 1:30 for BP and duplex loads. I've never shot smokeless in a Maynard.

I don't know exactly what this mould cast 'em at for that 1:30 alloy, but I recall that it was ~.360"+. I've been caught in a misdisremembered event in my recollection of exact bullet weights at the three settings. ....so take this with a grain of salt. Also, I'm waay too lazy to fire up my caster, dump out the hard alloy in it and throw in the proper mix just to see.

I've had several .35 Maynards with perfect bores - that I thought should shoot well. The problem was always the standard Maynard bugaboo of widely-varied bore diameters. On examples I've had over the years, most of the bores measured .365"-.370" - which became problematic for finding a proper bullet mould. I've ordered exactly one custom mould in my life - with expensive and disappointing results. I've had one of the Maynard 2-cavity .35 moulds, but it never matched any of the .35 bores I had at the time! I'm sure Mass. Arms sent out moulds with rifles that matched the bore perfectly, but most of 'em have been scattered to the 4 winds.

In the case of the one above, I could shoot oversize .38 Special bullets with good-excellent results. The bullet we're talking about is way too short for best accuracy, but worked OK for short-range <50 yd. plinking. My best .38 Special mould for this barrel was another one - Ideal/Lyman 358430 - which cast ~200gr. bullet. I found a decent supply of Remington soft lead .358" FNs in this weight that shot well in this barrel, too.

Hope that helps.

xtm

[floodgate]

xtimberman:

Screw or stud? Can you provide a photo of the outside showing the screw(?) head, and one of the plug and screw disassembled alongside the mould?

Post here, so all interested parties can see it. There are a couple of Maynard owners here; I am sure they would like to see your rifle, too.

Thanks again!

Doug

[STP]

xtimberman,

Thank you very much for the info.

STP

[xtimberman]

3 more out-of-focus photos of Ideal 360363 .

I no longer have the .35-30 we've been talking about, but I'll post photos of another Maynard in another odd caliber - .32-35. I cast bullets for it with an old Ideal mould that I have questions about too, so I'll start another thread in a few days.

xtm

[floodgate]

xtimberman:

Thanks! I'm quite sure that the mould, plug and screw are original, with the plug in the uppermost hole (the original plugs seem to protrude only about 1/8" from the base of the mould) - and strongly suspect that the owner added the two lower holes to get longer bullets. If you ever run any more bullets from this mould, it would be interesting to check and see if - say - 1:30 gives you anything like 70 grs, with the plug in the uppermost position. I DO wonder if the longer shanks with no additional grooves carried enough lube for BP.

Doug

[xtimberman]

I also doubted that the thin groove provided enough lube, so I always put an extra disc of lube below the bullet and above the overpowder card. Not the best practice, but OK for what I was doing.

I'd like to thank everyone for the information shared with me. Most of my knowledge of the old guns, moulds, and tools has been acquired from books and personal experience. I don't belong to clubs and such, and none of my shooting buddies are interested in this stuff - so thanks again for the infusion of new knowledge.

xtm