1886 Winchester Miroko 45-70

[Enyaw]

The rifle seems accurate enough fer me even without a proper throat. Loaded 405gr. cast bullet alloy 94%lead,4% antimony, 2% tin with lead added 5lb.to 20lbs alloy to soften the mix.

Bullet pushed approx. 1,468 ft/sec. I can hit at a hundred paces with a 2-4 inch group off hand. Using a brace(tree) to steady the heavy rifle(shoulder injuries) I can knock sandstone rocks 2-3 inch height/5 inch wide off the log consistantly. That's good to go fer deer hunting since at 50-60 paces I can hit a tennis ball size target consistantly.

If I benched the rifle I thunk it would do a 2-3 inch hundred yard group consistantly enough. Not bad fer a rifle with a crappy throat.

One question.......would it be possible to chamber the rifle to 45-90 and give it a proper throat? Maybe get some decent longer range accuracy from the rifle?

One tip fer other owners of the rifle type made by Winchester(Miroko) where as the rifle has light firing pin strikes and some misfires would be to use the softer Federal primers since they ignite 100% consistantly in my rifle that can misfire with other primer types.

People go to cutting the bottom prong of the mainspring strut shortening it to get better firing pin strikes and mess the configuration of the mechanics of the gun. I am lucky to not need to do that as long as I use the Federal primers to reload ammo.


I have a theory that instead of just cutting the bottom prong of the mainspring strut it would be better to cut to shorten the bottom strut prong but......replace the length with a coil spring of lesser weight than the mainspring. Make the end of the bottom mainspring strut shorter but lengthen it back by mounting a coil spring to it.

The bottom mainspring strut being ended with a coil spring with a lesser than the mainspring weight would take less of the forward thrust of the hammer away,as the hammer has to fight the full weight of the mainspring to strike the firing pin. Lesser fight to hit the firing pin by the hammer should let the firing pin strike by the hammer be more forceful and ignite primers consistantly. Consistantly as long as the weight of the coil spring mounted to the shortened bottom mainspring strut prong is correct.

Correct spring tension to the added spring on the shortened lower strut prong should let the mechanics be favorable to the rebounding hammer and the half cock safety configuration.
If the tension to the added spring is correct the firing pin strike wouldn't be too strong as it is when the bottom prong of the mainspring strute is simply cut off and results in some mainspring needing to be clipped off.

That is what I been thunkin anywhooooo...... What do you Hombre think about that remedy to the misfire problems this Japan made Winchester with the danged rebounding hammer can have?

It makes sense to me to have the bottom prong of the mainspring strut left the right length by adding a coil spring of the correct weight. Exactly how to install the spring to the shortened bottom prong of the mainspring strut I haven't thunked that far yet. Im sure it can be done properly.

Naturally the spring inside diameter would need to be a tight fit around the strut prong to steady it's placement and probably a cross pin or two to keep it (spring) on the prong would be all that's needed to keep the danged spring on there.

Not being sure how a spring on the shortened strut would affect the safety of the half cock safety position of the hammer I'd be assured by the danged infernal safety on the tang. The half cock position of the hammer may be less ridgid if a spring is on the end of the lower prong of the mainspring strut especially if that spring is of a lesser weight than the mainspring tension.

I thunk it would be safe but......trying it and testing it is the only way to find out unless I could go back and remember all the math and the physics equations I've fergitted that impair my mechanical enginerring abilities. ha ha ha ha I've not ever disassembled the rifle yet anyway. Just looked at the mainspring strut.

[9w1911]

I wouldnt kick one out of the safe

[Loudenboomer]

I used the main spring mod on the japchester 86 a few years ago. Search around you'll find it. Easy to do with good pictures too. Solved my weak primer strike problems and lightened the trigger pull a little to boot.

[Lloyd Smale]

might suprise you. the one i had would do inch at a 100 using an apature sight with quite a few differnt bullets. Heck of a nice gun

[square butte]

Can anyone provide a link on the modification?

[Chill Wills]

I have one. What is crappy about the throat? Maybe they don't all have the same chamber and throat? What would you want if you could change something?

[Enyaw]

I thunk I've bee misimformed some about the throat of the 1886 Winchester Miroko rifle.

I was under the impression it had "no throat" like ,supposedly, most lever guns have where the chamber size where the case sits extends the full maxlength of the cartridge. Like where the bullet sits it would be fully non supported in a diameter the same as where the case sits.

I've seen drawings that show that.

When it comes to what's in my rifle that is misimformation again from the net. While cleaning my rifle ,this last time I fired it,that was never yet chamber slugged(Cerrosafe) I measured the chamber to see the legth of it where the brass sits. Seems the brass I have comes very close to the "Step down" in diameter where the throat should start.

Best as I can tell the first driving band on my 405gr. bullet in the cartridge with a nominal max length(SAMMI specs) comes right up to the stepdown in diameter where the throat should start whereas the step down is not square but beveled some like the beginning of a throat in a revolver chamber.

In short what that means is that the ogive part of my bullet enters the rifled bore with the first driving band right next to and possibly touching the stepdown in diameter.

In other words,in my opinion, the rifle has a throat with the rifling started in it.
I like that idea. I can butt the first driving band against the beveled beginning of what I consider a throat with rifling. At least with smokeless powder.

Using the black with it's fouling I'd leave room for the bullet on the end of the cartdrige to get in the chamber fully even ifin the chamber was getting dirty from blackpowder fouling.

People exclaiming the Winchester 1886 Miroko has no throat are right but.......that isn't the whole story at least not in my rifle. It has a throat with the rifing grooves and lands right in it.

I figure I'd been mis-informed but now I ain't a dummy anymore since I took the time to look at the chamber in my rifle closer. I thunk that ifin the ogive part of the bullet on the cartridge sits on (or close depending on the bullets ogive) the lands of the bore it's "throat enough fer me and better than a throat that is bare and has not the lands of the bore in it.

I mean......with my Shilo Sharps or Pedersoli Sharps 1874 models I like the ogive of the bullet to be set out some to extend into the rifling lands as far as it will go and still let the cartridge chamber ifin there's alil dirt from the blackpowder in there. The first driving band "into" the beveled step where the lead-in to the rifling begins so as to help center the bullet into the bore of the rifle.

Anywhooooooo......I just took the closer look at the chamber of my 1886 Winchester Miroko after I posted this thread. Before the closer look I thunked the lack of a throat meant that the full length of the chamber was the same diameter as it is where the brass sits meaning the bullet was unsupported.

To me.....if the bullets ogive is well into the lands that's a GOOD thing and is "a throat" to me.

I plan on using the Cerrosafe chamber cast stuff to get an exact picture and situate my cartridge length with the bullet sittin out some so it can get centered well by the support of the beveled part of "the throat with the rifling in it". You know....let the first driving band just sorta kiss right up the the lil lead-in to the rifling. That's if that doesn't make the cartridge length too long to cycle thru the rifle which I expect it will cycle thru. Maybe "I" can get the one inch group at 100 yards too!
May as well fergit that unless I can learn to shoot from the bench better since my shoulders are worn out from too much manual labor and my eyes are gettin foggy. If,on a good day, I put a few shots into a few inches off hand I'm happy.

Anywhooooo.....somewhere(I thunk here at Cast Boolits) I read that ifin the bottom prong of the "Hammer strut" (whick I was calling the mainspring strut) was cut short to get rid of the rebound to the hammer then....the rifle could be fired from the half cock position and the cartridge ignite at least 50% of the time.

That would have me wondering how that could happen(once I thunked on it) when there would be no tension on the mainspring to send the hammer forward and into the firing pin.

Anywhooooo.....I just thought that the hammer strut shouldn't be cut short and left that way without putting something there to put the right length of it back but.....without the full strength of the mainspring infringing on the hammers travel to hit the firing pin to have the "rebound" of the hammer back to half cock position.

That's why I thunked it may be viable to weaken the strength of the mainsprings power fer the rebound by shortening the bottom prong(the one that creates the rebound) and "replacing it's length" with a lesser powered spring that wouldn't infringe on the hammers travel to hit the firing pin.

You know......a way to solve the problem some of the newer model 1886's have with misfiring. You know.....a more compatable solution than shortening the bottom prong of the hammer strut and then having to weaken the mainspring from having too hard a hit to the hammer to the firing pin and then no half cock rebound.

I bought a spare hammer strut to try that modification some day to test it out. I need a handfull of coil springs with the right inside diameter and different tensions to do the testing.

I know that some of the rifles don't have the misfiring problem and logic tells me to just figger why that happens to just some and not all of the Miroko 1886's. See what's up with the geometry of the design and find the anomally and correct that. I may not be able to find the improper part of the geometry and remedy that (re-machining a hammer with the hole in a different position or a different weight to the side that is above the hammer axle(screw) ect.ect.)so I thunked on a plan "B".
That is what I was asking about to see what you Gentlemen and scholors of the lever gun thunked about my idea.

I know the misfiring problems could be in some of the 1886's because of a short or overly light or overly complicated firing pin design due to the Company fearing the "fools" that need a "foolproof" firearm that can't possibly be fired into one of their feet no matter how hard they may try. That's sarcasm because I figger the original design of the 1886 Winchester was just fine with the safety it had and it is a sacriledge to change anything Browning designed.

Even with all the extra safety put into the newer Miroko Winchester someone can still find a way to have an accident. Same goes ferthe 1894 models with the danged crossbolt safeties added.

I mean....with all that extra safety **** my instinct to just simply thumb the hammer to half cock safety gets all fumbled up and all those new safety features are going to cause me to have an accident some day. I may thumb the hammer back on a rebounder and set it to fullcock without realizing it fergittin I ain't shootin my Uberti 1873 Winchester lever action.

Sorry for the overly long story here. I just drank too much coffee. I didn't set out to "two finger type" a book.

[TXGunNut]

I wouldnt kick one out of the safe

Agreed, I'll make room for anything with a lever and a bore. I've long admired the Miroku rifles but they're a bit modern for my tastes these days. I've purchased a few very nice older rifles lately for well under the tariff of the Miroku. OTOH I'm very impressed with the quality of my new Citori and I'm well aware of who made it.

[Enyaw]

Agreed I'd have to be a leveraction rifle fan from the brainwashing I loved as a kid when there was practically nothing on the TV but Western Movies.

I really admire the Take down model 1886 lever rifle I've been talkin bout. I admire the Rossi(1980's model) 92 on the kitchen table that I "fixed fer an Hombre. Needed the muzzle crown freshed up and last nite I sized a pilot perfectly fer the bore toguide the Brownells chamfer tool 45 degree reamer. Cuts the steellike butter fer a perfectly concentric with the bore crown. I thunk that rifle will be back on the trail since Ohio has finally allowed the straight walled cartridge lever guns fer DEER HUNTIN. It's crown was overly worn from cleaning without a muzzle protector and some dings right on the edge of the lands. It's got a pristeen bore with a nice crown now. It's the 357mag chambering. That will do well fer the Pilgrim.

Anywhooooo.......I feel better bout the chamber in my 1886 Winchester now that I took a close look at it. All I need is a exact fit bore ride bullet to get some really good accuracy from it. The nose of the bullet being chambered right into the rifling the way the chamber is done. I like that. Really like that although with the Holy Black I'll probably use a bullet not overly tight riding the bore from the fouling causing some chambering clitches after so many shots.

I have to say that the 1873 Uberti Winchester Sporting rifle I have(30 inch barrel) has to be a favorite. It has accuracy with the 45 Long Colt cartridge that is not really allowed in the naturallaws of physics. Like one of those "One of Ten Thousand" rifle from backin the day. How many ground hogs bite the dust out in the farm fields at the old homestead I couldn't count. Some were put to pushin up daisies out at the 400-500 yard range with that rifle. How high did I have to "raise er up" to get out there. Rididulously high but....that 230gr. tuncated cone bullet flew straight.

I am a deprived soul though. I have always wanted the Browning 1886 Deluxe Model with the octagon barrel and the engraving.
I offered my well to do nephew my homestead(when I go to pushin up daisies) here with the acre and a half stocked pond and 22 acres of field and woods right in the middle of deer huntin heaven fer.......a measely $2,500 Browning Deluxe rifle to will back to him when I go . He listened to his WIFE and didn't take the deal.

Anywhooooo........I'm gettin the typing frenzy again so I better go feed and run the hounds afore my energy wears down and.....I cant stop thunkin bout whether or not to delve into re-chambering that "86" to 45-90 from 45-70. I guess it depends on whether or not I will go to shootin the Holy Black in it. The reciever should have the room to change over.
I could watch Davidsons to see ifin any of those takedown half round half octagon barreled Winchesters are still around that were chambered in 45-90.

Added note....I've seen the buck I want to hunt soon here in Ohio. Nice brute with BIG BODY and Big Antlers. Likes to eat apples. First time ever being able to hunt with a lever gun fer deer in this infernal state. Been huntin with a Hawken Rifle I made fer the last 20years or so. Funny.....it wears an octagon 4140 ordanance grade 45-70 barrel 30 inches long. 1-20 twist with a bullet swage fer puttin the rifling to the bullets sos I can load them. That rifle defies the laws of nature it shoots so well. I do hunt better when I have only one shot. 500gr. Lyman Govt. bullet over 75gr. FFg Black.

TXgunnut.....ifin you have a nice original 1886 Winchester with those older rifles you picked up I envy you Hombre. Only thing might be nicer would be an 1876 Winchester in 45/75 chamber.
TXgunnut.....Citori? .......Shotgun?........Rifle?

[Geezer in NH]

try off a bench instead of offhand. Len it across a sleeping bag if you have to IMHO. Offhand means NOTHING.

[TXGunNut]

TXgunnut.....ifin you have a nice original 1886 Winchester with those older rifles you picked up I envy you Hombre. Only thing might be nicer would be an 1876 Winchester in 45/75 chamber.
TXgunnut.....Citori? .......Shotgun?........Rifle?-Enyaw

No 1886's...yet. Kinda surprised I haven't added an 1873 yet either. All in good time, I guess. I've been fortunate to run across the ones I've added these past several months but I can only afford one now and then.
I agree with the 45-90 as a blackpowder cartridge. It doesn't make much sense and a smokeless cartridge to me and I don't think the 45-70 holds enough BP for my purposes.
Citori's a Browning shotgun. Long story and off-topic, sorry. I'm quite possibly the world's worst wingshooter but it was something I had to try...and I'm having a ball with it. Awesome quality and handling but I still suck at wingshooting.

[303carbine]

My 86 45-70 carbine shoots into 1.5 inch at 80 yds with the 420 grain cast bullet, I was considering having it opened up into a 45-90 but it shoots too good to mess with.