which caliber for canada deer

[M-Tecs]

Interesting history on the Stormy Kromer hats http://www.stormykromer.com/history and yes they come in blaze orange. I have both the original and the rancher. Ranchers is for colder weather. They seem expensive until you use them. Wool hats for hunting are great. I am not sure if Randy was joking or serious but either way Stormy Kromer hats are money well spent.

[robertbank]

White Tail and Colombian Black Tail Deer are pretty small animals on the West Coast so I would think a 45-70 would be hugely over kill. I never saw a deer on the Prairies or in Ontario that would not fall to a 30-30..quickly. The .303 is a great cartridge for anything on four legs that you would eat regularly that you would find with fir on it in N.A

Of the three you mentioned the 336 with a scope is pretty hard to beat for a deer gun.

Take Care

Bob

[jethunter]

45-70 would be my pick but any one of them will take any deer that walks.

Years ago I shot a mulie that was 220 pounds delivered to the butcher - that was without legs, hide, head, and guts. I expect live weight was in the 400 lb range. 30-30 from 70 yds killed it as dead as any uber magnum and wasted less meat. He was a big old smelly buck in the peak of the rut, all sweated up and stinky. He smelled so bad that i was gagging while i field dressed him, but that was some of the best deer meat I've ever had.

[TXGunNut]

I have all three, of the three in your situation I wouldn't advise buying the venerable 35 Rem. It's an excellent round but as M-Tecs has pointed out Remington has lost interest in selling component brass for it and loaded ammo is pretty scarce as well. In heavy brush I've become quite fond of the way my 45-70 puts a critter on the ground fast, generally without taking another step. My GG is ported and I have no issues with it, just make sure no one is standing beside you when you make it go boom. Only argument against the 30-30 is that you don't have dies or moulds for it, not a huge obstacle but a consideration. 30-30 brass isn't that hard to come by. I enjoy everything about the thutty-thutty but it seldom goes hunting with me. The 45-70 always comes along, either as a backup or primary rifle.

[BruceB]

[QUOTE=TXGunNut;2929878] Remington has lost interest in selling component brass for it and loaded ammo is pretty scarce as well.QUOTE

This is a HANDLOADERS' Board!

For a handloader, many things are possible, and many options exist, specifically including the .35 Remington.

The lack of factory ammunition often means that the firearms requiring that ammunition become available at reasonable prices, as well.

The availability of ammunition virtually NEVER crosses my mind when thinking about acquiring another gun.... except for .22 Long Rifle, of course. I can't fix THAT shortage at my bench without a lot more effort than I'm prepared to exert.

[TXGunNut]

This is a HANDLOADERS' Board!

For a handloader, many things are possible, and many options exist, specifically including the .35 Remington. -BruceB

Very true but I think most of us aren't the accomplished tinkerer you are, Bruce. I enjoy making stuff but prefer to use correct headstamp brass, have too many cartridges that look very much alike (32WS/30-30, 375Win/38-55) so I apply the KISS principle to headstamps. I'm lucky enough to have all the brass I'm likely to need for the 35 Rem but I fell in love with this cartridge over 25 years ago, not sure I'd start down that road today even tho Remlin is apparently still building rifles chambered for this cartridge. OTOH loaded ammo is pretty reasonable and this cartridge is pretty easy on brass, the few I've had split had 7-8 loadings behind them.
I just think OP's other choices make more sense given his situation, all things considered. I'm a big fan of the 35 Remington but it's not for everyone, at least that's what the folks at Remington have decided.

[M-Tecs]

This is a HANDLOADERS' Board!

You still need brass. Currently no new 35 Rem brass is available. GunBrokers is getting $0.75 to $1.10 for range pickup 35 Rem brass. This spring loaded 35 factory was on sale for $1.20 a round. Currently about $1.60 at Cabelas which appears to be the only online source. Currently buying loaded 35 Rem is about the same cost as brass and components if you can find them.

If you can't find loaded ammo or brass you will have to form. Not a problem for an advanced reloader but not something I am going to recommend to the average reloader. Like TXGunNut I prefer to use the correct headstamp and I never recommend others to use non-correct headstamp brass.

[BruceB]

Of course we still need brass. No brass, no shoot!

The "tinkering" referred to above gave me perfectly-useful .35 brass from my own minor efforts, but more to the point, "GRUMPA" , right here on this Board, is selling fine .35 cases which he makes from other calibers.

I think he also sells cases for the .30 (and maybe .32?) Remington calibers as well.

It's just that I believe it's shortsighted to rule out any cartridge, when "the tools of our salvation" are right in our own workshops.

[TXGunNut]

BTW Bruce, I'm not putting you or Grumpa down for your "tinkering". I admire folks that have the patience, equipment and ability to form cases for unpopular cartridges.

[BruceB]

Not to worry, amigo; I didn't take it that way at all.

For them that likes messing about with such stuff, it's OK.... different strokes, etc.!

[TXGunNut]

Thanks, Bruce. Glad to hear it. We may disagree about some stuff but I know we're both big fans of the 35 Rem. If I thought it would do any good I'd try to start a movement to revive interest in this cartridge. It hits hard, it penetrates, it's chambered in handy leverguns and it won't beat you up on the bench or in the field. In my experience it kills as well as, maybe a bit better than the 45-70. It's really a shame that more folks, including the folks at Remington, don't share our passion for this round.

[KirkD]

Once difference between the 30-30 and the 45-70 in the field is that the 30-30 may or may not completely penetrate the animal. In my experience, at least, the 45-70 always goes in one side and comes out the other.

[starmac]

Me thinks anything will do, but if you have been itching for a 45/70, there is only one way to scratch it, and I have never heard of one killing anything too dead.

[10x]

35 Rem. Canadian deer in some area's are as big as mule deer in the States. 45-70 to slow. 30-30 not enough. 35 Rem is just right.

I have harvested a fair number of Canadian mule deer (Alberta WMU 526) using all 3 of the calibers listed.
Under 200 yards all calibers resulted in one shot kills. and a 20 to 50 yard dash by the deer before it piled up.
My hunting partner, Brian of Hammond Game Getter fame

[OverMax]

For those who think the 35 Rem is on the cusp of obsoletism. Not to worry there will always be brass & cartridges made for the 35. Perhaps not by Rem but more likely by some independent brass and ammo maker. There is, and always will be a market for both. What Rem & Win both know that many of us (their customers) forgot. {There is always some other willing to fill the nitch those two big company's create occasionally.} As 10X has stated (it's meaning I think) It's not the caliber or cartridge that makes a good deer rifle. Its the shooters marksmanship in different field situations. That does.__ All nice white tails hung 10X. All Doe I see. So I can imagine the size of a 8-10 point up there. Got to be huge animals.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I always get a kick out of the term "Obsolete" when it is applied to firearms. Obsolete in literal terms means either unusable due to unavailability, or ineffective compared to newer items.

When you talk about Obsolete cartridges generally it means no new guns being made in that caliber,,, Usually until some outfit realizes that if they chambered a gun in that obsolete caliber, which had some pretty desirable characteristics, that they would sell a bunch of them.

A good example is the obsolete .45-70 Govt. round that was considered "Obsolete" until Marlin decided to make a Levergun in that caliber around 1980 ish or when ever they brought out the new model 1895. Now that caliber is more popular than it ever was simply because there is a lot of attention paid to it by both manufacturers and ammo companies. To say it is a Handloader's dream is an understatement.

I don't feel that any "Mainstream Military Cartridge" IE; Many Millions of guns made for war, type of gun, should ever be classified as Obsolete simply because there are too many guns out in the public domain and there will always be a market for parts, ammo and loading components for those things. If they were so ineffective then why did they kill millions of people and animals with them?

I personally see no reason whatsoever for new cartridge development,,, Simply because every possible usage for a firearm is already covered by many cartridges already in existence, and most of them are pushing 100 years old. The latest joke I have seen is the 26 Nosler, which was made specifically for Nosler to sell more 6.5 MM bullets I see no advantage over the .264 Winchester which died on the vine 50 years ago, and yet the 100+ year old 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser which uses the same bullets is more popular now than ever before and will easily outlive the 26 Nosler no matter how good it appears to be on paper. Also add in the other 20 or so 6.5 cartridges already established and you've got a guaranteed loser. My .02?

Unfortunately most people consider Obsolete to mean Unusable. Interesting how a 1950's made DeHaviland Beaver or Otter can be considered obsolete when the bulk of bush planes are these exact planes. They are rebuilt again and again simply because there are no new airplanes that will do the job that these planes will do, and you can add the Piper Cub and Super Cub, and DC3 to that list as well and they will be rebuilt both at local shops and the big IRAN Facility at Oshkosh WI until all available parts are exhausted,,, and then people will make the parts needed themselves. I have a friend who makes sheet metal parts for various Obsolete Helicopters and even A,B and C model C130's. Sikorski and Lockheed stopped producing these parts long ago but there is still a demand so others now make them. The USAF and the Marines are his biggest customers! Go figure?

C130's and B52's will be the first airplanes to make 100 years in service simply because there is nothing else that will do their jobs the way they can,,, and no reason to try to build something else that does. You simply upgrade the existing planes with newer electronics and engines and they just keep on plodding along.

I just bet them ISIS dudes will Ship themselves the first time they see B52's Carpet Bombing them with airplanes made before 1962. Tail#1040 is the newest one and it was made in 1962! Probably been completely rebuilt (IRAN, Inspect and Repair As Needed) Twice.

They are still making new C130's! So it's going to be around for along time.

You can currently buy virtually every body part for just about any classic car ever made. Demand equals $Money to be made. It's called the "Aftermarket." And it exists for anything that there is a need for. If it is a custom type of part, there are guys who can make it. I recently saw a car show where there was a shop in Argentina that was making EXACT Replicas of Bugatti Racers from the 1930's and were so close to original that it took a serious Bugatti expert to figure out they were replicas and not restored cars!

There are several outfits that will make you any cartridge you can imagine and probably have stock on many of the more popular Obsolete Cartridge cases since it makes no sense to make a run of 100 parts for one guy when someone else will probably need them down the road. It is called "amortizing the setup" over a larger quantity of parts to reduce the price per part.

When it comes to manufacturing we are living in the "Best of Times!"

When it comes to obsolete guns, the question that always stops the "obsolete gun conversation" is,,, "Would you volunteer to be shot at by said Obsolete Gun?". The answer is usually NO! And you can always extend that to 600 year old Muzzleloaders versus new ones still made today and used my millions of hunters every season. Sure the new ones are easier to clean but the old ones still are just as effective caliber for caliber.

How could something as obsolete as a Muzzleloader be used that much?

Simple answer to that is ,,, it is fun to use it.

There was a saying in a movie once,,, If you build it they will come.

With respect to classic firearms nothing could be more true.

Randy

[smkummer]

30-30 for me. Any place that sells ammo, will probably have it. 30-30 with a 150 has stopped any deer I have seen shot with it and that was in N. Dakota. I can't imagine a deer big enough that a 170 grain 30-30 would be not enough.

[starmac]

While I do like the 35, if I am going to have only one deer rifle, it would be a long ways down the priority list. My old 300 savage is considered obsolete by many, but I can pretty much any day walk into sportsmans and buy ammo even during our major shortage, I don't know when the last time I saw 35 rem there. I know we all reload, but for a one gun guy, I just would not recommend it.

[MT Chambers]

I'm in the middle of big deer country (Saskatchewan, Canada), and have harvested quite a few big deer, I choose to hunt the wooded areas where ranges are closer, If I hunted the open areas I'd need a much flatter shooting gun. My favorites are the Win '94 ae in .356 Win. and the Marlin .45/70, all the others mentioned will work but those 2 really lay the smack down.

[TXGunNut]

I always get a kick out of the term "Obsolete" when it is applied to firearms. Obsolete in literal terms means either unusable due to unavailability, or ineffective compared to newer items.-W.R.Buchanan


I don't think the 35 Rem will ever be obsolete but it appears to me it's commercial viability is in serious trouble. It's just not flashy enough to attract the average gun buyer. It's a short, dumpy-looking cartridge that doesn't shoot especially fast or flat. Last time I checked it's only chambered in a few rifle's whose own commercial viablity is in question. None of the above matters much to people who understand the 35 Rem but it matters to folks who answer to corporate HQ types who in turn answer to investors.