1891 Argentine Mauser

[dualsport]

Count me in as a '91 fan. Just bought #3, a cut down Lowe sporter. Has the coveted Buehler safety I've been trying to replace on my other sporter which blew a primer and destroyed the safety. Anyway, keep your brass straight, low pressure here, normal or full pressure there. Don't mix or a headspace thing can come up. (I know now). I form my 7.65 from range pick up .270 in an RCBS trim/form die. Very easy and fast. Then a pass thru a Lee FL die and finally fireform. Perfect fit then. Congratulations on your new baby. Guns identical to yours have won serious cast bullet matches. EDIT: I use a Dremel tool to just BARELY erase the original factory caliber markings on the case head-avoids mistaken identities.

[arclight]

I've made them from cut-down 30-06 cases. First, you either use a trim die or a ruler and a hacksaw and cut them to length. Then you want to really lube them up well. It's best if you can get some Imperial Die Sizing Wax. Otherwise, regular case lube works. When using a full-length die, I find I need to back it out several turns and do the forming in 3-4 steps if I want to keep the force required down to a reasonable level and avoid stuck cases. I've also found that a first-pass through the bullet seating die can help start the forming process.

You may also want to anneal the cases before you start.

Or you can buy some brass from Grafs.
http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...ategoryId/776?

Even better, you can get PRVI Partizan loaded ammo for a reasonable price, shoot it and then reload:
http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...roductId/12582


Arclight

I have a question about brass, is it worth the trouble making 7.65x53 from 30/06 cases? i have about 200 30/06 cases, mostly winchester and remington. i wouldnt have to invest in brass if i could form them. i dont own a 30/06 any more sadly so all this brass is almost useless to me.

[jugulater]

Very good information on the process, i really appreciate all the help. I have seen the PRVI brass from grafs, but ill go ahead and give forming them a shot. I haven't done any competition shooting yet, but i may go find my way into a few competitions soon.

I have never had to remove head stamps before considering 41 swiss cant be easily confused with 348 win. But i will this time to keep the worst from happening..

[dualsport]

I have several RCBS form and trim dies. They are the cat's meow. Inexpensive, last forever. Make your own brass for life. Easy schmeezy.

[arclight]

In any case, this is a pretty easy rifle to load for, once you get some cases. Load data for 300 Savage is a close fit, as is 7.5x55 Swiss and .303 British. And also the lower-pressure .308 loads. The 308 data is helpful if you need a starting point for surplus powder.

Also, don't worry about getting the bullet seated up to the edge of the rifling. At least in the 1891s I've loaded for, the throat is so long that you'll never touch the rifling.

Arclight

[jugulater]

The extra long throat surprised me when i did a chamber cast. Thank you for clearing up the similar data that i can use, it should be extremely useful. Im going up town later today to pick up some powder, primes, and just about anything else i cant live without.Ill hopefully have my 1891 up and shooting by the weekend. Ill be sure to post my results any pictures of any groups i achieve. You all have been so very helpful. This is probably one of the nicest forums on the interwebz. And also the best place to find help reloading for my forgotten warriors.

[Scharfschuetze]

Yes, that long "Mauser" throat is the total opposite of the Swiss 7.5 leade that can be almost too short.

I like to load my cast boolits out to touch the rifling, but I can't do it with the 1891 if I want to use it as a repeater as the OAL is too long for the magazine. Fortunately the diameter of the nose of my 314299 (.313 X .303) boolit seems to make up for that with rewarding accuracy from magazine length ammo.

For long OAL ammo, the 1891 doesn't use the controlled feeding of later Mausers so single loading is a snap and that's how I reload and shoot most of my ammo for 'em.

[arclight]

Speaking of the reapeating action, the one I have is already sporterized with a scope and chopped-down stock. Has anyone tried modifying the magazine release on their sporter to make loading/unloading easier? This is helpful when I'm hunting and drive around a lot.

Arclight

Yes, that long "Mauser" throat is the total opposite of the Swiss 7.5 leade that can be almost too short.

I like to load my cast boolits out to touch the rifling, but I can't do it with the 1891 if I want to use it as a repeater as the OAL is too long for the magazine. Fortunately the diameter of the nose of my 314299 (.313 X .303) boolit seems to make up for that with rewarding accuracy from magazine length ammo.

For long OAL ammo, the 1891 doesn't use the controlled feeding of later Mausers so single loading is a snap and that's how I reload and shoot most of my ammo for 'em.

[jugulater]

If im correct two variations exist in magazine design for the 1891. The earlier model had a spring release, but i am not sure how it operates as i have never examined one. I know that my 1891 that was built ~1896 has a large bolt retaining the magazine. i have a book around here that goes into detail about dismantling the 1891 Mauser and similar models. im not sure how one could modify this to be easily removable, but i am sure it could be done

Attachment 112665

Here is the bolt i am speaking of. it appears to be stuck as i cant get it to budge at all.

[autofix4u]

The magazine lock bolt should not come out. Just turn 180° the latch is easy enough to modify for field use. Remove the trigger guard and drift the pin out that holds the latch in. The "button" is center drilled already just drill and tap, install suitable larger button and reassemble. I have two set up this way, works well. The spring tension on the mag lips is not always enough to hold all five rounds in a loaded mag when not installed in the rifle.

[autofix4u]

To clarify my statement all 1891 mausers have the spring loaded latch inside the trigger guard. The later ones have a lock bolt in front of the mag. Inside the front of the trigger guard there is a small round flush button, intended to be used with the tip of a bullet to release the mag for cleaning only.

[troyboy]

If you are reforming from 06. Decap and tumble. Cut where the shoulder meets the neck,Deburr,Anneal,lube,then resize in appropriate die(I use Lee). Trim to length(again Lee trimmer). See if it chambers(mine wouldn't). If they do great, clean lube and primer pocket then load. If not mill shellholder until it chambers then proceed.

[troyboy]

Sorry forgot to mention the shellholder(again Lee) I used the #2 not the #3 that came with the dies(Lee).Also had to get an 8mm expander and turn to .312 as the expander that came with the die set was 308. Size of your bore may different so plan accordingly.

[Scharfschuetze]

Sorry forgot to mention the shellholder(again Lee) I used the #2 not the #3 that came with the dies(Lee).Also had to get an 8mm expander and turn to .312 as the expander that came with the die set was 308. Size of your bore may different so plan accordingly.

Yes, dump the Lee .308 expander (intended for jacketed bullets) and pick up or order a Lyman M die in 31 calibre, or preferably the RCBS rifle neck expander die with interchangeable expanders. I use the .311 expander for my .313 sized boolits.

I generally use a Redding 308 Winchester bushing die and neck size the 7.65 neck to an internal diameter of .311 and then I use the Lee universal rifle belling die to form a slight bell so as not to damage the .313" cast boolit. Works a treat and barely works the brass for long case life and works well for single loaded ammo. I size the down to .310 internal diameter for ammo to be fed from the magazine.

Be careful in trimming down your shell holder if you need to set your case's shoulder back. I managed to actually pull the brass rim of a case through my thinned steel shell holder after taking .006" off of it. I ended up shortening the die in order to set my shoulder back the needed amount after forming the cases from LC Ought Six brass. Hopefully that's not a necessary step for most of you.

[jugulater]

That should save me some trouble, although i did not buy LEE this time around. I went with rcbs mainly because my LGS had a good set on the shelf and they were priced well. I will see if i have the same issue when the stuff i ordered gets here. I have had good experiances with both LEE and RCBS tools. I am almost certain i will have to cut the shell holder down due to how clean my chamber is. I read of guys on another forum chambering reformed brass then wacking the bolt with a mallet to size them the rest of the way, sure does not sound like the best idea to me.

[Buckshot]

..........I made quite quite a few 7.65x53 Arg cases from 30-06, as at the time the only REAL Argentine brass was Norma, and I was poor I do not shoot any full book load jacketed rounds from my 2 rifles and carbine. Just cast loads at 16-1800 fps stuff. The little Engineer Carbine with the 190 gr Nu-Judge slug even at 1800 fps sure let's you know the primer has done it's thing. They're very nice firearms. Some folks dislike the extended magazine, and I suppose for military use the staggered flush magazine is better. However to me it sure does make for a 'Racey' looking rifle, but then again that's just me

...............Buckshot

[Larry Gibson]

That should save me some trouble, although i did not buy LEE this time around. I went with rcbs mainly because my LGS had a good set on the shelf and they were priced well. I will see if i have the same issue when the stuff i ordered gets here. I have had good experiances with both LEE and RCBS tools. I am almost certain i will have to cut the shell holder down due to how clean my chamber is. I read of guys on another forum chambering reformed brass then wacking the bolt with a mallet to size them the rest of the way, sure does not sound like the best idea to me.

Many think the 7.65 Argentine and the 7.65 Belgian are the same. While cartridge dimensions are generally pretty close to the same the problem is in the chambers. Over the years I have found the Belgian chambers were close to .010" longer in headspace than the Argentine, especially the later M91 and M1909 Argentines. I've also found the Belgian bores and groove diameters were .001 -.004" larger than the Argentine bores and groove diameters. Thus many of the dies made for the 7.65 Belgian (such as the Lee dies were) sized the cases with headspace too long for Argentine chambers. I have found it much better to take .010" off the base of the "Belgian" FL die to size the cases for the Argentine than to thin the shell holder.

"wacking the bolt with a mallet to size them the rest of the way" is an answer to a question that shouldn't have been asked.........because it really didn't need to be asked........

Larry Gibson

[Noffsinger]

I have developed the following loads for the 1891 Argentine Mausers that I own. One has been sporterized a bit and the other is full military configuration.
All loads have proven accurate in both mine and my 2 shooting partner's rifles.
Chronograph data provided by "Shooting Chrony F1 Chronograph" at 12 feet from the muzzle, all are 10 shot strings.

7.65x53 Argentine [* = Military LC .30-06 base case]
Bullet Wt Powder Chg Velocity Stats
125 gr Ex-treme Plated Rel-7 25.0 1667 (1635/1699 = 64 SD) {cases "sooty", load needs to be increased}
125 gr Ex-treme Plated Longshot 15.5 (Not chronographed, but very accurate)
190 gr Lyman #311644 Longshot 15.5 1745 (1730/1772 = 42 SD)
200 gr Lyman #314299 WC867 47.7 1984 (1975/1998 = 23 SD)
200 gr Lyman #314299 WC867 47.7 2022 (2006/2053 = 47 SD)*

[jugulater]

I am going to put some loads together this weekend, but i have no idea when i will get time to go to the range. Ive been trying to talk my uncle into letting me shoot on his rather large chunk of property that is right dont the street if he allows me to use his property as my personal range everyone will know where to find me after work LOL. Either way i plan on having a fun time with my 1891. I hope the AR-15 boys at the range dont get to worried about me firing off a 100+ year old antique! LOL

[jugulater]

It seems that brass sized in my RCBS FL sizer die chambers perfectly in my 1891. I am assuming i got very lucky here. Did anyone here buy the RCBS set and have to modify the die? The box is marked 7.65x53 Belgium mauser. I thought the belgians called it 7.65x54?