Unacceptable accuracy question

[Hannibal]

Bashing? I'm asking for help with an accuracy issue. And if you read the start of the thread you would see that several types/weights of factory ammo have been tried.
Bashing? No, I think not.

[country gent]

Sometimes finding the combination to make a rifle perform can be alot of trial and error. A bore scope would be handy to get a really good look in the barrel at the throat lead angle area. The .001 larger muzzle dia isnt helping any for sure barrel tension can be experimented with as stated with card shims between forend and barrel. Another thing is to vary the placement a 1" testing from forend tip to about 4" back from it. You may find the harmonics node that makes it shoot. How is the trigger on this rifle good clean and crisp like a glass rod breaking or grity creepy heavy like pulling a rubber ball over coarse sand paper? Check lug bearing in the reciever with scraping blue or ink. Lightly coat both lugs backs and close bolt open and remove bolt look at surfaces cor contact. It should be even and equal from one side to the other. Make sure the ejector isnt putting undo pressure on the loaded round or the extractor isnt binding on some rilms. Check case fit to chamber. Also check a fired case from this rifle fit in the camber and then turn 45* thro a full rotation, this will give an ideaif the chamber is round. Tension on the barrel nut? Bearing in the stock of diffrent areas and clearence where needed. A trigger group or magazine box bearing can screw up accuracy also. Bedding it up on pillars can take alot of stock issues away. A full reciever bedding job and testing is going to show alot.

[Love Life]

Have you tried Federal Gold Medal Match? If it won't shoot with that then it is time to sell that bad boy off or rebarrel it...and a rebarrel may not fix what may be wrong with it.

I don't see the wisdom of dropping more money into a rifle that can easily be replaced for the cost of the "Fixes" to make it shoot.

[MBTcustom]

I'm coming in late, and I'm going to hunt down your barrel slugging thread next, but I guarantee the barrel is to blame. If you have a good barrel, a good crown, and the headspace is correct, there is just not much you can do to blow the groups out past 2".
They don't call it a rifle for nothing. The barrel is more important than all the junk we strap all over it. Get it right, and it will shoot.

[MtGun44]

Call Savage and see if they will fix it. My bet is they will.

Bill

[Hannibal]

As everyone seems to agree that a rifle barrel with these bore dimentions is very likely to give poor results, I plan to contact Savage Monday and explain the situation. I'll update the thread once they have responded. Thanks for all the replies/input so far.

[Hannibal]

Update : Savage has agreed to look at the rifle. UPS to pick-up in the next 2 days.

[Hannibal]

Update : The rifle arrived at Savage today and is already on it's way back to me according to UPS tracking. I'm not sure if that's good or bad. I guess I'll have to wait another week to find out.

[TheCelt]

Update : The rifle arrived at Savage today and is already on it's way back to me according to UPS tracking. I'm not sure if that's good or bad. I guess I'll have to wait another week to find out.

Doesn't take 10 minutes to change a Savage barrel and set the headspace, sounds like GREAT customer service to me!!

[Hannibal]

That's what I'm hoping for. I ain't looking for anything extra. But I DO want something done about that barrel.

[HeavyMetal]

I'm glad you sent it back to Savage now I can't wait to see what they did and if it performs better.

Looking forward to your updating us when it arrives

[Hannibal]

Update : I misunderstood the tracking information. Savage still has the rifle, but in response to my latest inquery I have been told they are replacing the barrel. Apparently, they have some sort of revolving 2 week shut down period in the summer, so no one will be in the finishing department until 7/28.
Ah, well. At least it appears they are going to take care of it.

[Mk42gunner]

At least they are going to take care of it for you.

Maybe they figured if you waited three years to send it in, two more weeks wouldn't matter.

The .338 116 that I had shot a lot more like Bruceb's than your .308, and the wood stocked .22-250 shot thumbnail sized groups. The 110FP I had would hit pop cans and fist sized rocks with boring regularity using plain old M-80 Ball, for as long as you wanted to stay in the sling.

Hopefully yours will shoot like that when you get it back.

Robert

[triggerhappy243]

If you asked me, I would sell the rifle. any bolt rifle of good quality should be able to shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yards..... off the rack...... providing you do not get the barrel hot.(3 to 5 shot group). a 3.25 inch group sounds to me there is more than 1 issue with your rifle. I am an accuracy nut. and I know where I start and stop with an "off the rack rifle". how much factory ammo do you want to waste.... trying to find out what is wrong with the rifle?

I notice you mention you shoot a 10 round group. is this a sporter weight barrel or a heavy contour?

[Hannibal]

Sporter weight. During the summer months, it can take as long as an hour per group. Fans are also involved. My summer bench is right outside the garage door. If you read the entire post, this is as much about learning what is the root cause as it is about fixing it. Many have advised me to give up already. I plan to see this through. Foolish? Some say yes. I say I'm learning something. We're all correct, most likely.
AND in my opinion, a 3-round group is merely a guesstimate, at best. Nor have I found firing rounds under controlled and observed circumstances to ever be a "waste of time." But what do I know?

[triggerhappy243]

I have 2 sporter weight rifles. 30-06 and a 243. I shoot 5 shot groups and then put it away to totally cool. much past that 5th shot my groups grow. that is why i asked. there may be potential... it is not my rifle and i have not tried shooting the 10 shot groups. but i do know after shot #5 you can not hold onto the barrel very long bare handed. hope you can fix what is wrong.

[mpmarty]

Let someone else shoot it. Ya might be surprised.

[dakotashooter2]

Update : I misunderstood the tracking information. Savage still has the rifle, but in response to my latest inquery I have been told they are replacing the barrel. Apparently, they have some sort of revolving 2 week shut down period in the summer, so no one will be in the finishing department until 7/28.
Ah, well. At lea
st it appears they are going to take care of it.

I'm willing to bet it's cheaper for them to just replace the barrel than spend a bunch of man hours trying to figure out the problem. Either way it works out in your favor. Savage still makes a fine working mans gun, not always fancy but generally accurate enough to get the job done and at a reasonable price.

[Pilgrim]

What goodsteel said...As much as Savage rifles are sorta ugly (that barrel nut just bugs me!) their reputation is they are good grouping rifles. A number of years back I worried about factory barrels, but they have greatly improved their tolerances. The only exception to that that I'm personally aware of are some (not all) imports and I'm fighting with one of those right now. The folks that worry about shooting bug holes have a saying...accuracy factors are barrels, bedding, bullets, in that order. You can screw around with the bedding and bullets, but a bad barrel is hopeless and you can't fix that with bedding or reloads and I think you had one of those barrels. If your rifle shoots sorta OK, then fooling around with the bedding, reloads, etc makes sense. At least Savage is proud enough of their rifles to make sure bad barrels go into recycle bins. I wish Rossi felt that way......Pilgrim

[Treetop]

I have a Savage model 10 .308 that I bought new roughly 3 years ago. The first time I sighted it in, in seemed the group size was excessive. I did not get concerned at the time as it was a new firearm. It has been fired only occasionally since. A couple of months ago, I decided to get serious about the accuracy problem. A 10 round group started out, and remains, around 3 1/4 MOA at 100 yds. This is with factory j-word ammunition. 4 major manufacturers, same overall results. Correction attempts include replacement of the scope and rings with quality pieces (Leupold and Millet), glass bedding of the stock, and of course inspection for loose hardware/barrel to stock contact. Accuracy has remained unchanged. I noticed this evening that with the bolt closed on an empty chamber that the bolt can rather easily be moved forward & backward .012" as measured with feeler gauges. NONE of my other bolt-action firearms display more than .001" using the same measurement technique, and 1 of them is 94 years old and has had untold thousands of rounds thru it. So, my question is, is this an adjustable tolerance, or something that will require a receiver/bolt repair. I'd LOVE to shoot cast thru this rifle. But I don't dare try that road with a rifle that won't shoot factory j-words decently.

Expanman, I had a similar problem with my brand new Savage model 10. My first groups with J words were more like shotgun patterns! I tried different brands of .308 factory cartridges, handloads and cast boolits. Typical "groups" were anywhere between 4"-6" except with cast boolits, which were tumbling!

I had heard nothing but great things about the accuracy of these rifles and perhaps that's why I failed to do what you should do first with ANY rifle that you plan on shooting cast boolits in. Slug the bore! When I finally did, I couldn't believe how easily the pure lead slug went through the bore... I knew something was amiss...

Bore slugging results= .305 bore diameter X .308" groove diameter! IOW, my rifling was only .0015" deep per side!

This rifle had an integral muzzle break on it so I wasn't able to drop a bullet in the bore and visually check it.

Instead of sending it back to Savage, I ordered an Ed McGowan barrel in 1:12 twist for it. The McGowan barrel has never seen a J word and probably never will. I have now shot sub MOA groups out of this rifle with 3 different boolits! Almost every boolit I have shot was suitably accurate (<1 1/2"). I hope that this information helps you. Tt.