Official 500 Grain 45-70 Load Data questionnaire for Marlin and Winchester Leverguns

[james6600]

DUKE NUKEM, take heed of what Doc Stihl says, just about all published data in the books for boolits heavier than 405gr have a longer COL with the extra weight in the nose outside the case. When you go squishing heavy boolits to a Marlin feedable length you are drastically reducing case volume and even TrapDoor loads become high pressure. I'm sure you know this but I just wanted to be blunt about it to make sure you are safe. I'm trying to load CP460's and starting with 30grs of IMR4198 in a cut down case to just under 1.8" but keeping the Marlin COL. For those that haven't figured it out and really want to waste time read Indiana deer laws at indnr.gov .

[lar45]

I looked at Quickload with your bullet length of 1.297" and a loaded length of 2.543" with a 20" barrel.
37.5gn of 3031 should give 1420fps @ 24.6kpsi and 100% load density
28gn of 4198 should give 1273fps @ 20.8kpsi and 77.8% load density
32gn of 4198 should give 1434fps @ 29.3kpsi and 89% load density
36gn of 4198 should give 1588fps @ 40.7kpsi and 100% load density
27gn of 5744 should give 1400fps @ 29.7kpsi and 70% load density
29gn of 5744 should give 1484fps @ 35.3kpsi and 76% load density
30.5gn of 5744 should give 1544fps @ 40kpsi and 79.5% load density

Not Load Data, just Quickload's Guestimate

[Just Duke]

DUKE NUKEM, take heed of what Doc Stihl says, just about all published data in the books for boolits heavier than 405gr have a longer COL with the extra weight in the nose outside the case. When you go squishing heavy boolits to a Marlin feedable length you are drastically reducing case volume and even TrapDoor loads become high pressure. I'm sure you know this but I just wanted to be blunt about it to make sure you are safe. I'm trying to load CP460's and starting with 30grs of IMR4198 in a cut down case to just under 1.8" but keeping the Marlin COL. For those that haven't figured it out and really want to waste time read Indiana deer laws at indnr.gov .

This is a clone of the RCBS #82054 45-500-FN

This bullet was designed for the 45-70 by engineers.

I looked at Quickload with your bullet length of 1.297" and a loaded length of 2.543" with a 20" barrel.

32gn of 4198 should give 1434fps @ 29.3kpsi and 89% load density

This is what mine are loaded to. I shoot them in a Winchester 1886 and formerly several Marlin 1895's.

Personally I feel the the pressures associated with 500 to 550's to 1800 fps in the Marlin are not within my safety parameters.
I have seen others here load 500 to 550's with 40 grains of 4198 and then proceed to fire them in the Marlin 1895's. <shuddering>
I don't feel this action is designed for this type of load. I sure won't ever load to 40 grains that's for sure

[Just Duke]

Thanks Lars.

[CPL Lou]

I'd be happy as a hog in slop to get 1500 - 1600 fps with this boolit !
I have a Ruger #1 built for insanity loads, my Marlin lever actions are too dear to my heart to take a chance loading them to 1800fps !
Making a road trip of 280 miles tomorrow to pick up a NIB 1895CB w/18.5" barrel.

CPL Lou

[RidgerunnerAk]

I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would want to shoot a 500gr boolit out of a Marlin 1895! I'm happy that one friend of mine did though. He shattered the stock and didn't want to mess with it and gave it to me. I bought a replacement stock from Warshals in Seattle for $27 and have been carrying that gun as my bear protection gun using 400gr Barnes SP's in Alaska for about 34yrs and have taken blacktail deer and moose with it.

[Just Duke]

I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would want to shoot a 500gr boolit out of a Marlin 1895! I'm happy that one friend of mine did though. He shattered the stock and didn't want to mess with it and gave it to me. I bought a replacement stock from Warshals in Seattle for $27 and have been carrying that gun as my bear protection gun using 400gr Barnes SP's in Alaska for about 34yrs and have taken blacktail deer and moose with it.

For when your having one of those "I look real tastey to some big animal days" while walking through the woods in Alaska.





























HOLY SMOKERS!!!

[Just Duke]

Looks to be shooting OK too!
Here is a target using Lead 485 Grainers and 28 grains of Hodgden 4198 at 30 yards.
Not bad shootin for a half blind guy.

[Just Duke]

[Just Duke]

[softpoint]

Actually, the 500 gr. RCBS bullet is designed to function in the Marlin with the crimp groove in the proper place. I have all of RCBS current offerings in .45 caliber, and have had that mold hollowpointed by Buckshot. The bullet is also quite accurate in all of my Marlins, Rcbs load manual gives a load of 44 grains of 3031 for 1533 fps. out of a 22" barrel 1895. I have used that load and also have used AA2015 and AA2495 with that bullet. I have found that some of the hotter loads with lighter bullets produce more recoil than the 500 does, because of the reduced powder capacity, most likely.
Having said that, I find that 350 to 405 grain bullets get a lot more use from me, with the accuracy edge usually going to the 405's and the 425 Ranch dog Bullet. (The lighter slugs use lots less alloy).

[CPL Lou]

Duke, is that a custom barrel ?
I have a brand spankin new 1895CB, 18.5" octagonal barrel just itchin to shoot a few of these.
I've been reading '40 years with the 45-70', found data for the 500gr RCBS somewhere close to the back of the book. Can't recall what it was right now, but I'll look it up again tomorrow and post it.
BTW, that is one awesome bear !!!

CPL Lou

Found the data on page #158 !
He tried 40grs of IMR3031 using CCI 250 Magnum primer in a Marlin 1895.

[CPL Lou]

I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would want to shoot a 500gr boolit out of a Marlin 1895! I'm happy that one friend of mine did though. He shattered the stock and didn't want to mess with it and gave it to me. I bought a replacement stock from Warshals in Seattle for $27 and have been carrying that gun as my bear protection gun using 400gr Barnes SP's in Alaska for about 34yrs and have taken blacktail deer and moose with it.

I would stop trying to then.

CPL Lou

[40-82 hiker]

If you are considering using BP, I'd suggest using AA5744 (no real advantage to BP in your rifle, lacking need for authenticity or range rules - still, it would be great fun). Pretty sure they have load data for that heavy of a boolit, or very close to it. At least you could consider it a "reduced" load... Geez! That's a chunk of lead! I was using a copy of the Ordnance Dept. 500gr boolit in my TD for some time, and even at BP velocities, and in a heavy TD, it just got uncomfortable to shoot as I got older and my body got worse. Can't imagine it in a light(er) gun at higher velocities. Good luck with it... Ever thought of a .600 Nitro Express instead? Just kidding... Now use 405gr and love it.

[Just Duke]

Good info.

[KirkD]

I am just starting to experiment with my new Accurate mould http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...=46-500F-D.png . This bullet is designed to have a lot of it outside the case, so that the powder volume remains almost the same as the 405 grain bullet. Unfortunately, it will only feed through Model 1886 actions (old and modern). I have an original '86 and a Browning '86 SRC. It is a plain base design. Here are some results through the original '86 ...

30 grains IMR 4198 + 1/2 sheet of single ply toilet paper: 1,383 fps for a 5-shot group at 100 yards of 2 & 5/8"

32 grains IMR 4198 (no filler): 1,370 fps for a 5-shot group at 100 yards of 2"

My next step is to try a slower load, somewhere around 1,280 fps. Also, I want to try a BP load. As for the Browning, I am finding that the bullet is not quite stabilizing. Some holes are perfect at 100 yards, but the occasional hole shows a slight wobble. For the 32 grains of IMR 4198 load, three bullets formed one ragged hole at 100 yards, but two others widened the group to about 4 & 1/2" (although I also suspect that the vertical spread might have been due to myself). By the way, this load kicks like a mule with the steel butt on the Browning '86 SRC.

Using the original 500 grain Lyman mould,which also will not feed through a Marlin, 24 grains of 5744 plus 1/4 sheet of single ply toilet paper gave 1,172 fps.

[Fieldmaster]

Need to keep in mind that when you're looking at load data for 500 grain boolits in a 45/70 most of the time they assume that half the bullet is outside the case. Short nosed Marlin acceptable bullets use a lot of capacity up.

That's where single shot rifles come into play

[Barman54]

Nice Postings

Barman54
Out

[BLAHUT]

I'm thinking 28-32 grains of 4198.
I also have a plethora of 3031. Not sure if that can be used.
5744 is an option. Again not sure what load would be good for hunting
I'm also entertaining Black Powder.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...N-(RCBS-82054)

I load and shoot a 515 gr Lee flat point in pure lead over 27 gr of 5744 with a mag primer out of my guide gun. Very accurate.

[indian joe]

I shoot duplex / blackpowder in my 45/70 lever - you give away too much powder space with those big boolits in a lever gun (winchester anyways)