simple Hi-Tek coating

[bosco555]

Hi All and thanks again for your replies. I have tumbled until I heard the change and saw that the boolits were getting sticky. I shall change that. I also think the coat was too thick.

1700fps is not going to cut it as I need at least 2000-2100fps for my 458WinMag, will do another batch and see how I go, in order to get used to the procedure and then will order a batch of gold/copper red so that I can push my loads to those speeds..
Will keep you guys posted.
b

[leadman]

bosco555, you may want to get away from using a candle to smoke your molds. It leaves a greasy type deposit that is probably not good for the coating adhesion to the boolit. I have had no problem with match smoked molds.

I tested some of the gold powder Hi-Tek coated boolits a while back and I really like it. Seems to coat the boolit more completely in a thinner coat. No difference was noted in the couple of guns I tried it in versus the liquid.

[Pyrex]

I'm sure I'm not the first one to come barging in demanding a summary, but I have read the first 90 pages of the thread, and the last 10, and I'm a little confused and need some help about putting it all together. Has anyone outlined the entire process in a single post I can see, or website?

I'm purchasing the gold lube from gateway. It seems there is suppose to be a catalyst, is that included?

Also, it seems there are multiple supplies needed, mainly squirt bottles for the lube, some acetone which I assume is to cut it/act as binder? And then a third bottle to mix/squirt. So let me kind of outline what I presume is the method to use, and please correct me where I'm wrong.

1. Mix lube w/ catalyst and acetone (is this correct?)
2. Use roughly 1ml per pound of bullets - so for 250 230gr .45 bullets you would use 8.2ml (is this true for all coats you do, or is the first "light code" suppose to be less?
3. Ratio of 5-1-7, I don't quite understand this. What are the three elements to this ratio?
4. Bake for 15min @ 200c (392 F) per coat (I understand this is a derivative of the amount being done)
5. Acetone/smash test
6. Recoat
7. Bake for 15min @ 200c (392 F)
8. Acetone/smash test
9. resize.
10. load

Now, for tumble lube, is it okay to just toss them in a plastic bag like you would normal lube? Also, I have a twist dial style toaster oven I was going to use, however I'm not exactly sure if I can trust it's accuracy so I was planning on using a digital thermometer to supplement it and get the right temps. Anything special I should know beforehand?

[Beagle333]

Has anyone outlined the entire process in a single post I can see, or website?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...o-s-and-don-ts

[Moonman]

Pyrex,
CONVECTION OVEN is best.
Accurate Temps are a MUST.
You tumble in a plastic bag you'll have a mess,
the Acetone will probably dissolve it.

RATIOS, the 5 is the amount of Color
the 1 is the amount of Catalyst (included in the kit) added to the Color,
the 7 is the amount of ACETONE (that you supply and add to the mix).
Mixing up MORE rather than LESS seems to work best,
Mixed solution will a bit of time.
You need to keep NOTES ON YOUR EQUIPMENT AND PROCESS.

if you're the impatient type, you'll probably be better off trying
the POWDER COATING methods either electrostatic or the tumble method.
Some folks have multiple tries over time, ALL FAIL and they just GIVE UP.

Fresh Cast, DO NOT SIZE it burnishes the surface and the coatings adhesion suffers,
DO NOT ACETONE BATH or try to clean of previous lube just remelt those they won't work,

Coating NEEDS TO REALLY DRY, more than to the TOUCH, underneath the coating
takes some time to dry.

Coat/DRY WELL/Bake/Acetone Wipe Test/Smash Test if all is A-OK keep going,
Coat again/Dry/Bake/ Acetone Wipe Test/Smash Test/if A-OK
NOW, You can size, if not REMELT START OVER/KEEP NOTES!

[Ausglock]

Pyrex.
Follow Beagle333's link.
I have the process listed in point form.
If you are unsure of something, call Gateway.
Byron can help you.

P.S. 15 minute bake will cause failure. you only need 10 to 12 minutes at 200deg C.

[Pyrex]

sounds good! lol @ the plastic bag, I didn't even think about that. I assume quenching in water isn't going to affect the adhesion, will it?

Big thanks for the link, puts me at ease.

[220]

Pyrex.
P.S. 15 minute bake will cause failure. you only need 10 to 12 minutes at 200deg C.

Yep 15min would be way to long in my experience.
Coated a few more batches over the weekend, forgot to reset my oven from 12 to 10min when I swapped from red/copper to the original blue green. Bullets came out looking over cooked, still passed the smash and wipe tests but you could tell by just looking they had been in to long.
Bit like a cake that has been baked to long, still usable but you know you can do better next time.

The whole baking boolits process is a bit like following a cake recipe, there is an oven temp and time listed but it is really only a guide and will require minor tweeking in temp and time to get the perfect results in your oven.
Follow the recipe 10-12min @ 200c check the results and then make minor adjustments, 5c or 1 min either way until you get the perfect result.

[Gateway Bullets]

Pyrex.
Follow Beagle333's link.
I have the process listed in point form.
If you are unsure of something, call Gateway.
Byron can help you.

P.S. 15 minute bake will cause failure. you only need 10 to 12 minutes at 200deg C.

I am more than willing to help out. Call the shop any time you need help. 636-629-5555. If I don't answer leave a msg. It gets pretty loud in there!!!!!

[ItZaLLgooD]

I have read about 80 of the earliest pages of this so please forgive me if this has already been covered. I am using the green color and mixing 5-1-7. My first coat passes the acetone and smash test but not the fingernail test. I was able to scrap it off fairly easily. I carried on and after 3 thin coats they made it through the Lee sizer without issue. I did however get some lead in the barrel after about 50 rounds. Like some of the others the leading was substantially reduced from the normal amount in this particular barrel (Taurus PT1911) and was very easy to get out.

I did make a fairly small batch of the mix. I used a 1/2 teaspoon for measuring and did the 5-1-7 with that. For approx. 200 230 gr. 45's I used 3 of the 1/2 tsp's of mix. I have a Hamilton Beech convection oven from WallyWorld and a thermometer on the tray with the boolits. I ran them just under 400°F for 12-15 mins. The color seems to match with what some have posted as good. I did make a batch that was a little darker that went up to 420°F for 10 mins. They actually passed all of the tests but were way darker in color. These were .40's and I haven't tried them yet.

Any suggestions to improve my process?? I haven't heard anyone mention the fingernail test here but it was in the destructions that I got with my coating. I am going to try again later today and see if a larger batch of coating helps.

[Ausglock]

Ok. first thing first..
What is your alloy?
I use 2,6,92 alloy at 16 BHN and there is no way in hell I can fingernail scratch the coating off it.
Are you sure you are not removing lead with the coating when you scratch it?

If it passes the smash and wipe test, then I'd say you alloy is the problem.
do a hardness test to check.

[ItZaLLgooD]

I don't have a hardness tester at the moment. It's on my list. The alloy is Isotope lead (don't remember the actual content) and range scrap, 50/50. I am definitely taking lead when I scratch.

I will cast up a batch of straight Iso lead and see if it helps. Maybe I should add a little tin??

I use straight Iso lead and 45-45-10 for mid range 357's and +P 38's without any leading in my Model 66. The barrel in my Taurus has always been a real bugger when it comes to leading. The 40's (cast from straight Iso lead) will get run through my Sig 226. We'll see how that goes.

[ItZaLLgooD]

I also forgot to mention that after the 3rd coat I pass the scratch test, just not the first. I didn't know if this was normal or not

[ItZaLLgooD]

Here's what the batch I did today looks like.

[HI-TEK]

Here's what the batch I did today looks like.

These look OK.
I would be interested in some photos of your smash test, after 1st coat.

If your first coat comes off easily, do not continue coating with extra coats. It is a waste of time and materials.

My initial reaction to what you have described so far is, that first coat may have not been dried adequately, and baking them, may "set" the coat, but no bonding to the Lead.
That is why you may be able to scratch off coating with your finger nails.

I would appreciate if you coat once, dry it well, and then bake at 200C for 10 minutes.
Let it cool, and do the solvent test, and smash test,and if you can take photos of each, and describe what is happening in details after this firs coat and testing, it may shed more details so we can assist.

[ItZaLLgooD]

So do I start the timer once the oven reaches temp? I have been timing from when I put them in. The oven will be at 390-400, when I put the boolits in drops to 350 +- then it takes 10-12 minutes for it to get back to 390. Should I leave them in for 10 minutes after they reach 390?

I just got done with some 124 gr. 9mm's. They came out perfectly and passed all tests without any trouble. They looked so nice I skipped the 3rd coat. These will be loaded in some 357 sig's.

Everything that I have cast is coated. Mainly 45's. I just got a new mold for the 40. I will cast some of those next week and document the coating process, coat by coat. I will also try to try and let them dry longer. I have been waiting 15-20 minutes with a fan blowing on them. Maybe I will try to run it out to an hour or so.

[HI-TEK]

So do I start the timer once the oven reaches temp? I have been timing from when I put them in. The oven will be at 390-400, when I put the boolits in drops to 350 +- then it takes 10-12 minutes for it to get back to 390. Should I leave them in for 10 minutes after they reach 390?

I just got done with some 124 gr. 9mm's. They came out perfectly and passed all tests without any trouble. They looked so nice I skipped the 3rd coat. These will be loaded in some 357 sig's.

Everything that I have cast is coated. Mainly 45's. I just got a new mold for the 40. I will cast some of those next week and document the coating process, coat by coat. I will also try to try and let them dry longer. I have been waiting 15-20 minutes with a fan blowing on them. Maybe I will try to run it out to an hour or so.

The coating after thoroughly dry, needs to get to a minimum 180C, them held there for at least 3 minutes at 180C.
200C is not a problem.
It is not only the oven temperature that needs to be checked, but the projectiles loaded needs to get the heat up to correct conditions for cure and bonding.
Using 200C has been adopted, as a general guide, and all you have to do is set your oven, to get to 200C, then time after loading, check at what point the coating is cured.
All you have to do is take out quickly, say 2-3 projectiles at 10 minutes, again at 12 minutes, and so on, until you get right results.
Then simply reproduce that time in oven with same load, and dont keep changing temperature dial.
Only keep records time inside oven until it works with your baking system.

[Ausglock]

Don't try and bake too many at once. 40 and 45 pills, I only bake 175 to 200 at a time.
for 9mm 38 etc, I bake 250 to 300 at a time.

Follow the steps:
1. add 2 bullets to your colour resin and shake for a good 5 minutes.
2. shake the catalyst.
3. empty bottle ready. Add 5 parts colour immediately...IMMEDIATELY... after shaking.
4. Add 7 parts Acetone and then the 1 part catalyst.
5. Put lid on the mixture and shake the schit out of it for 5 minutes. I use 250ml juice bottles with pop-tops on them. easy to add coating to the bullets.
6. Add about 200 bullets( about 2Kgs) to the plastic bucket. lid is NOT needed.
7. Shake the 5-1-7-mix and Immediately add a 1 second dribble to the bucket of bullets. Replace mixture lid Immediately.
8. Shake the bucket of bullets and coating. Remember... you have to have the bullets and coating mixing around just like a cement mixer does. The bottom of the bucket should be wet with coating.
9. Keep shaking, swirling until the rattle of the bullets changes to a dull thumping. you will hear the change really easy.
10. dump the coated bullets onto your drying tray and shake the tray side to side until the bullets have leveled out on the tray. don't worry about them touching. it doesn't matter.
11. If you think there isn't enough colour on the bullet, then you have the coating just right. Leave them alone for at least 10 minutes. then warm them with a hair dryer.
12. turn on your oven and pre-heat to 200deg C.
13. place you bullets on the baking tray and spread them around to be even on the tray and place tray in the oven.
14. set the oven timer for 12 minutes. not 6 or 8. But a full 12 minutes.
15. when the oven turns off, remove the tray of bullets and let them cool. do not touch them until cool.
16. when cool. take 1 bullet. lay it in it's side on a steel base and smash it with a hammer. the coating should not flake off.
17. Take another bullet and get some acetone on a white cloth and wipe the coated bullet for 30 seconds and see if the colour comes off. if it does. place back into oven and bake for another 5 minutes. ( I have found 12 minutes per bake is enough).
18. When the bullets are cool, place back in the bucket and repeat steps 6 to 17.
19. when 2nd coat has cooled and has tested OK, Size and shoot.

[ItZaLLgooD]

The coating after thoroughly dry, needs to get to a minimum 180C, them held there for at least 3 minutes at 180C.
200C is not a problem.
It is not only the oven temperature that needs to be checked, but the projectiles loaded needs to get the heat up to correct conditions for cure and bonding.
Using 200C has been adopted, as a general guide, and all you have to do is set your oven, to get to 200C, then time after loading, check at what point the coating is cured.
All you have to do is take out quickly, say 2-3 projectiles at 10 minutes, again at 12 minutes, and so on, until you get right results.
Then simply reproduce that time in oven with same load, and dont keep changing temperature dial.
Only keep records time inside oven until it works with your baking system.

Got it. Maybe that's why the 9mm's worked out a little better. They got to temperature sooner.

With my set up, I couldn't get the color to change at 375-385°, even at 15-18 minutes, I bumped up the temp to 390-400 and was able to see a difference at 12-14 minutes. I think that my thermometer reads a little high. The oven is set to 350 to reach 390 on the thermometer.

I think that I am pretty close to getting it right. A little more fine tuning and I'll be off to the races. Thanks for all of the help guys.

[ItZaLLgooD]

Ausglock, I did exactly what you wrote minus the hairdryer and I put the catalyst in before the acetone. I might be a little closer to 220 45's. The tray isn't really packed. I tried to leave some room for air to move around. Next time I will drop it down to 150-175. The fact that the 9mm's came out perfect tells me that there may just be to many 45's to heat properly.