44 special versus 45 Colt long - educate me please

[enfieldphile]

Well now, I have both the .44 Special and .45 Colt S&W guns. Both are accurate and reliable. .44 Special brass (in most brands) is thicker, so longer case life. Of course I'm kinda prejudiced. I have a .45 Colt, it is a 4", Mountain Gun (light, tapered barrel). The first time I tried it on the silhouette range, I pulled up, there was this young (20's) married couple there. I put 5 rounds in the cylinder. Load was a 230 grain Lee TC bevel-base boolit w/ 9 grains of Herco. I was on my hind legs and fired the first round @ the 220 yard rams. There was this faint "clank" sound, and the dang ram slowly fell over!

The youngsters, their jaws kinda dropped! Me, I just gave a faint smile! I changed real quick to the easy 100 yard plates, Ray Charles could bang them over.

Easy way to decide, get both & be happy.

Exactly what Beagle said. The .45 Colt, in my experience is a cantankerous old witch of a cartridge. The .44 special is a sweet heart. The special can easily duplicate bp .45 colt velocity and more with fine accuracy. I spent money reaming cylinders, sending guns back to ruger, buying moulds and trying loads to get poor results in .45 colt. New model flat top ,44 specials have shot like they had eyes for me.

[PWS]

A lot of the comments here parallel what Elmer Keith was dealing with back in the 20's when he "gave up" the 45 Colt for the .44Spl and never looked back.

[PWS]

FWIW, the 44Spl is my choice too. Smaller case makes it better for light loads and yet it can be hopped up in full sized gun and the 44 is typically built with better tolerances.

[Airman Basic]

Got a BH convertible 45 lately, and the 45 auto cylinder is my plinker. At 50 yards, it's good as any revolver I have, and no chasing brass! I'll get around to the long colt cylinder, but right now, the ACP is too much fun.

[Dale53]

I have shot .44 Specials for way over fifty years. About twenty years ago, I started shooting .45 Colts in a Ruger Vaquero and just recently bought a Ruger SS Bisley Convertible.

I have a half dozen .44 Specials. All of them had correct dimensions in cylinders, throats, and barrels. I cast my own bullets and there are a almost unlimited variety of types available. If you like single actions, I have to say that the recent Ruger flattop .44 Specials are indeed, SPECIAL revolvers. They have the correct dimensions, good adjustable sights and both of mine are NRA Bullseye accurate. No brainer, for me.

My .45 Colt Ruger Bisley Vaquero shot to the sights right out of the box. However, the throats were a bit tight and for best performance needed to be reamed to .4525". My Convertible leaded and lost accuracy within a few shots of cast bullets. I couldn't even load the .45 ACP with cast bullets (any revolver of mine MUST be compatible with cast bullets). I reamed both cylinders (the throats) to .4525" and now they shoot and perform extremely well. Most .45 Colt revolvers have chambers with excess size so case life is limited when compared to an average .44 Special.

When using Colt SAA or Clones, the .44 Special can be loaded with much greater power level (not a concern of the original poster) due to greater thickness in cylinders of the .44 Special. In the full size Ruger Blackhawk, this is not a concern but in the mid-size frame it can be.

I believe I have fairly laid out my reasons for suggesting the O.P. go with the .44 Special and suggest strongly that he go with a Ruger Flattop (either in the plowhandle grip or the Bisley grip as they were produced in both) and of the barrel length he prefers. They were produced in both stainless and blue (I prefer stainless but have both).

One last comment - if you have desires of using black powder (particularly if you are planning on hunting deer size game), the .45 Colt is the caliber of choice due to it's greater case capacity for black and it's available power level. This won't matter to most but may to some.

FWIW
Dale53

[monge]

I made a arbor for my case trimmer and cut down 44mag brass to size renews the case mouth and only take a minute. love the 44sp have two and one mag. But I here the 45 has less muzzle blast when shooting with out plugs

[prs]

Bedbug, as a soot eater, the choice for you is the .45 Colt. Lyman 454-190 sized to .454 lubed with Emmert's and loaded over a case full of Swiss ffg with very modest compression will shoot groups over which to wax poetic. All three of my Vaqueros had to have Ruger's overly tight throats reamed to .453, but after that no fly has been safe on the sorgum coated back wall. The genuine eyetallion clones need no throat work, but lack the heft of the Ruger old models I shoot, the heft can be a good thing.

prs

[Wally]

In my years of shooting both I could not agree with you more. Glad to see that I am not the only one to find this to be true.

Exactly what Beagle said. The .45 Colt, in my experience is a cantankerous old witch of a cartridge. The .44 special is a sweet heart. The special can easily duplicate bp .45 colt velocity and more with fine accuracy. I spent money reaming cylinders, sending guns back to ruger, buying moulds and trying loads to get poor results in .45 colt. New model flat top ,44 specials have shot like they had eyes for me.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

It depends on what you want. If you just want to shoot, and like a wider range of availability between hot loads and low pressure loads, the .44 Special is much easier to work with. If you like to tinker at your loading bench and pursue the history of a great cartridge that is very effective and moderate ranges, I'd get the .45 Colt.

I'd been dealing with re-sizing .45 Colt brass down through the years, full length re-sizing .45 Colt brass for the Ruger and neck re-sizing for the Colt SAA because Ruger chambers are tight and Colt mills the historically correct taper of the chamber walls. There is always a Coke bottle effect on the reloaded cartridge. The full length re-sized Ruger cartridges show the Coke bottle near the base of the cartridge, the neck re-sized cartridges for the Colt show the Coke bottle effect near the base of the boolit. Good thing I don't use a .44-40 at matches it would be easy to mix these up without careful examination before loading.

Dave Scovill in his recent book Colt's Single Action Army, Loading and Shooting the Peacemaker published in 2013 details how Redding makes a carbide die for the .45 Colt with two (2) rings, one at the mouth of the die for the base of the cartridge and another carbide ring that re-sizes the neck. The neck carbide ring has a slightly reduced dimension. This die runs just over $100.00. This illustrates the problem with using carbide dies with the .45 Colt, of course the taper cannot be re-sized into the die with a carbide ring at the mouth of the die, the end result will be a Coke bottle effect.

I have ordered a steel RCBS re-sizer die for the .45 Colt for $20.00 and intend to lube the brass. I'll simply tumble the re-sized brass after sizing. The die is on back order but is due anytime from Midway.

Of course this is another reason why the .44 Special is superior to the .45 Colt and if a guy were wishing to purchase a single action just to shoot I would recommend he get a .44 Special and save himself a lot of extra work. But I have several .44 Specials, one very accurate with a cylinder cut to proper chamber throat dimensions, and I'm horsing around with the .45 Colt for fun. I like the nostalgia and I like tinkering at my loading bench.

I like making pretty cartridges and cast 454190 for the .45 Colt, I have a four (4) cavity mold for this boolit. I don't know why Lyman discontinued the four (4) for this boolit. Of course I cast Keith boolits and then 429667 in the .44 Special, both great boolits for different jobs.

One of my .44 Special Colt SAA's put five (5) shots within five (5) inches at 100 yards dead center on target.

[olereb]

45colt,i have 5 and love them. You can load light or magnum depending on what your doing and personally I have had great accuracy out of my .45colt revolvers and rifles.

[Wally]

Silver Jack....

I have a Ruger .45 Colt Blackhawk. If you look down the rear of the cylinder you can see a conical shape for 1/2 the cartridge case length...IOW the base of the case is wider than the neck. When using a carbide sizer die the fired case is resized to a cylinder shape, with a lot of slop in it, when it is chambered. I never liked that so I found a used RCBS steel sizer which has the correct shape, that sizes the case with a taper. One must lube the cases when using it. I have used carbide sizer dies for many years and I found it was not all that bad to lube and size the .45 Colt cases.

It depends on what you want. If you just want to shoot, and like a wider range of availability between hot loads and low pressure loads, the .44 Special is much easier to work with. If you like to tinker at your loading bench and pursue the history of a great cartridge that is very effective and moderate ranges, I'd get the .45 Colt.

I'd been dealing with re-sizing .45 Colt brass down through the years, full length re-sizing .45 Colt brass for the Ruger and neck re-sizing for the Colt SAA because Ruger chambers are tight and Colt mills the historically correct taper of the chamber walls. There is always a Coke bottle effect on the reloaded cartridge. The full length re-sized Ruger cartridges show the Coke bottle near the base of the cartridge, the neck re-sized cartridges for the Colt show the Coke bottle effect near the base of the boolit. Good thing I don't use a .44-40 at matches it would be easy to mix these up without careful examination before loading.

Dave Scovill in his recent book Colt's Single Action Army, Loading and Shooting the Peacemaker published in 2013 details how Redding makes a carbide die for the .45 Colt with two (2) rings, one at the mouth of the die for the base of the cartridge and another carbide ring that re-sizes the neck. The neck carbide ring has a slightly reduced dimension. This die runs just over $100.00. This illustrates the problem with using carbide dies with the .45 Colt, of course the taper cannot be re-sized into the die with a carbide ring at the mouth of the die, the end result will be a Coke bottle effect.

I have ordered a steel RCBS re-sizer die for the .45 Colt for $20.00 and intend to lube the brass. I'll simply tumble the re-sized brass after sizing. The die is on back order but is due anytime from Midway.

Of course this is another reason why the .44 Special is superior to the .45 Colt and if a guy were wishing to purchase a single action just to shoot I would recommend he get a .44 Special and save himself a lot of extra work. But I have several .44 Specials, one very accurate with a cylinder cut to proper chamber throat dimensions, and I'm horsing around with the .45 Colt for fun. I like the nostalgia and I like tinkering at my loading bench.

I like making pretty cartridges and cast 454190 for the .45 Colt, I have a four (4) cavity mold for this boolit. I don't know why Lyman discontinued the four (4) for this boolit. Of course I cast Keith boolits and then 429667 in the .44 Special, both great boolits for different jobs.

One of my .44 Special Colt SAA's put five (5) shots within five (5) inches at 100 yards dead center on target.

[jmort]

In standard, SAAMI pressure hand guns they are very much the same. If you don't care about energy/power then either one makes sense. But in strong guns they are so completely different, it is not worth discussion. The .44 Special can get around 900 ft lbs maxed out in a .44 magnum and the .45 Colt north of 1,400 ft lbs in strong hand guns. There is a whole lot more going on in the world of the .45 Colt when it comes to versatility.

[kenyerian]

I like them both for different reasons. If I can only have one I'll keep the 45.

[Char-Gar]

Just a little more to add to the discussion directed toward the OP. If, I wanted to move up from a 38/357 to a big bore I would add the 44 Magnum to the mix of choices.

The 44 Magnum enjoys all the benefits of the 44 Special, plus the ability to load it to higher pressure/velocity should there be a need or a desire to do so. The 44 Magnum does not lose anything in the accuracy department when loaded to 44 Special velocities.

The 44 Magnum is the reason I could never warm up to the 44 Special for the above mentioned reasons. Over the years I have had a dozen or so 44 Specials, but they could never find a place in my heart and all went down the road, save one.

About ten years ago I wandered into Nagles's Gun Shop in San Antonio and spotted an N frame Smith on the bottom shelf where it had been forgotten and unseen. Any N frame is worthy of a second look so I asked to see it. When I saw it, I asked the price and they said $200.00 to get it out the door. I pealed off $200.00 and it went home with me.

It is a 1933 Hand Ejector that has been over the bench at Micro some time in the past. It wears Micro rear sight, front sight, trigger and hammer with checkering on the backstrap. It is a honey and shoots like a house-a-fire.

[Char-Gar]

Silver Jack Hammer and Wally...Kudos on your choice of the steel die to size 45 Colt cases. I have acquired via Ebay three vintage (1959, 62 and 67) RCBS steel sizing dies in 45 Colt. They do size cases with a taper and a constriction/bottle neck on the top to be expanded to seat the bullet. Over all, size the brass much less than a carbide die and produce loaded rounds with the same dimensions as factory rounds, which fit charge holes much better than the squeezed down carbide size rounds.

I have gone back to steel sizing dies in 38 Special, 357 Magnum, 44 Special and 44 Magnum as well for the same reasons. The 45 ACP round is the only one where carbide produced the same size at the steel.

[DougGuy]

OP are you shooting BP or smokeless in this revolver? If I was wanting to shoot BP I would definitely choose the .45 Colt over the .44 Special. Even the original 1873 load approaches 500ft/lbs and likely would exceed that with newer powders.

[Outpost75]

Good thread discussion. In summary, the fellow who suggested the. 44 Magnum nailed it. You can down-load the .44 Magnum case with about 7.5-8 grains of any of the fast burners, Bullseye, Red Dot, 700-X, W231, Unique, etc. and get about 900-1000 fps with a 260-grain cast bullet for general purpose field and recreational shooting. You can load it full tilt for bears, brontosaurus or buffalo. Brass is plentiful. You can use .44 Special ammo in it, if you want. Sturdy, serviceable guns and companion rifles abound.

If I were to own only one revolver for recreational and outdoor field use, it would be a .44 Magnum. My choice of revolver in this caliber is the Ruger 5-1/2" Super Blackhawk with steel XR3 grip frame from the Old Army, with Hamilton Bowen's Rough Country sights and Belt Mountain base pin. Saeco #441 with 7.5 grains of Bullseye does most of my shooting, but I keep a few rounds stoked with 21 grs. of #2400 for maximum smash on rare occasions.

[Char-Gar]

Good thread discussion. In summary, the fellow who suggested the. 44 Magnum nailed it. You can down-load the .44 Magnum case with about 7.5-8 grains of any of the fast burners, Bullseye, Red Dot, 700-X, W231, Unique, etc. and get about 900-1000 fps with a 260-grain cast bullet for general purpose field and recreational shooting. You can load it full tilt for bears, brontosaurus or buffalo. Brass is plentiful. You can use .44 Special ammo in it, if you want. Sturdy, serviceable guns and companion rifles abound.

If I were to own only one revolver for recreational and outdoor field use, it would be a .44 Magnum. My choice of revolver in this caliber is the Ruger 5-1/2" Super Blackhawk with steel XR3 grip frame from the Old Army, with Hamilton Bowen's Rough Country sights and Belt Mountain base pin. Saeco #441 with 7.5 grains of Bullseye does most of my shooting, but I keep a few rounds stoked with 21 grs. of #2400 for maximum smash on rare occasions.

Yipeee...another man who has seen the light.

[Wolfer]

I have both. A ruger new vaquero in 45 and a Lipseys flat top in 44 spl. I load both to about the same power level. 250ish boolit @ around 1000 fps. All dimensions are correct in both guns.

I hit better up close with the 45 but the 44 is more accurate at long range. I have a lot of history with the 45 since I hit better with it. My buddy hits better with the 44.
You can argue them all day and find lots of strong opinions.
If one of mine had to go it would be the 44
I like my 45 better than any gun I've owned or shot. But if I had to spend the rest of my days with a 44 spl I would be ok.
The 44 mag is the best of both worlds but I don't like the weight. I don't shoot heavy loads and I consider the blackhawk frame to be the biggest I want to carry.
Woody

[Char-Gar]

When it comes to sixguns, I consider weight to be a plus. The extra few ozs helps steady the sights and soaks up more recoil. With a decent wide gunbelt, they can be carried all day with comfort. On a pants belt..not so much.