Puzzled .223 grouping 10" at 25 yds.!

[Iowa Fox]

+ another for putting GCs on. Other wise drop the load with 231 down to 2.5 gr and work up to 1100 fps or so w/o GCs. Should find some MOA squirrel accuracy for out to 75 yard shooting in there. Other wise put GCs on them as previously mentioned by all.

The Savage 24s did have 14" twists and make very fine cast bullet shooters. Mine runs 1 1/2 moa with cast bullets. The 225462 gets pushed to 2600 fps with very good accuracy.

Larry Gibson

Larry, Do you like the 225462 ? :kidding

[Larry Gibson]

I like what works

Larry Gibson

[btroj]

I like what works

Larry Gibson

That is how it should always be.

[popper]

You talking 45 core or cast lead? Core is probably pretty soft. Way too much tin. Size, HT and drop down a few hundred fops & try again.

[wmitty]

Since no one else has mentioned it, I will... paper patch 'em! (or maybe go nuts tryin' to!)

[Captain Capsize]

I may have found part or all of my lack of grouping problem. Yesterday while running a patch through my barrel i found a very rough spot several inches from the chamber throat. I ended up scrubbing, wire brushing, using vinegar/h2o2 and hours of elbow grease to remove the accumulation of lead. After getting the lead out I still have a rough section of the bore about 3-4". I can't see it but I can feel it when I push a patch through. I have no clue as to why the barrel is rough. Perhaps a previous owner got something stuck and damaged the barrel trying to remove it. I am thinking if I shoot any more lead bullets I am going to end up with a heavy lead buildup again.

So now the question is ... what do I do about it. I think I'll post this in the gun smithing section.

[Ben]

I might be wrong in this, but here is my view on your current situation.

The massive amounts of lead in your bore were directly related to the shooting of the bullets that had no gas check on them. Once leading began, it continued to get worse and worse, layer after layer of lead being deposited in the barrel. Your 2,000 fps load with the plain based bullet was an invitation for the severe leading that you are trying to remove right now from your barrel.

Evidence of all this is the time and sweat you've invested in trying to get your bore clean again. This roughness you feel ( but can't see ) is still lead fouling in the bore.

The Solution to the Problem.

Take a .22 cal Phosphorus Bronze bristle brush and wrap strands of Chore Boy Copper Cleaning Pad ( found in the dish washing detergent section at dept. stores like Wal - Mart ) around the brush. This will act much like the popular " Lewis Lead Remover " that was popular with revolver shooters in the 60's and 70's. Removes lead quickly but does not harm a barrel.



Take a small magnet with you when you go to the store to buy the copper pads. If you see copper colored cleaning pads, test them with your magnet, if the magnet is attracted to the pad, DO NOT buy it, as it is steel with a copper coating.( These are usually generic brands made in China )

You want the pure copper type , they won't attract a magnet because they are made from pure copper and will easily remove the leading but the copper is still soft enough to do zero harm to the interior of your barrel.

A few strands of this wrapped tightly around your bristle brush will remove the lead fouling in quick order without harming your barrel.

Once the bore is clean and smooth, you can start the testing process again.

Ben

[xacex]

Since no one else has mentioned it, I will... paper patch 'em! (or maybe go nuts tryin' to!)

NOw thats just wrong.

I might be wrong in this, but here is my view on your current situation.

The massive amounts of lead in your bore were directly related to the shooting of the bullets that had no gas check on them. Once leading began, it continued to get worse and worse, layer after layer of lead being deposited in the barrel. Your 2,000 fps load with the plain based bullet was an invitation for the severe leading that you are trying to remove right now from your barrel.

Evidence of all this is the time and sweat you've invested in trying to get your bore clean again. This roughness you feel ( but can't see ) is still lead fouling in the bore.

The Solution to the Problem.

Take a .22 cal Phosphorus Bronze bristle brush and wrap strands of Chore Boy Copper Cleaning Pad ( found in the dish washing detergent section at dept. stores like Wal - Mart ) around the brush. This will act much like the popular " Lewis Lead Remover " that was popular with revolver shooters in the 60's and 70's. Removes lead quickly but does not harm a barrel.



Take a small magnet with you when you go to the store to buy the copper pads. If you see copper colored cleaning pads, test them with your magnet, if the magnet is attracted to the pad, DO NOT buy it, as it is steel with a copper coating.( These are usually generic brands made in China )

You want the pure copper type , they won't attract a magnet because they are made from pure copper and will easily remove the leading but the copper is still soft enough to do zero harm to the interior of your barrel.

A few strands of this wrapped tightly around your bristle brush will remove the lead fouling in quick order without harming your barrel.

Once the bore is clean and smooth, you can start the testing process again.

Ben

May be leaded up as Ben mentioned. Don't get caught with a few boxes of Choreboys and gun. BATF now says it is intent.

[Hannibal]

NOw thats just wrong.



May be leaded up as Ben mentioned. Don't get caught with a few boxes of Choreboys and gun. BATF now says it is intent.

What am I missing/unaware of ? Intent? Intent of what, exactly?

[xacex]

What am I missing/unaware of ? Intent? Intent of what, exactly?

Imagine wrapping thin onion skin paper cut for the size of a .224 for a couple of wraps, and wrapping it in a cut in a board to get it nice and tight. Not an easy task. I did about 10 to prove to myself it could be done, and my fingers were cramped. I stick with 30 cal and larger for PP, but then again I powder coat now so I don't worry about it.

As for the intent, BATF has determined that Choreboy's are a silencer part. If you have a legal silencer, or pipe that could be used to construct a silencer you could run afoul of the alphabet club.
Retarded ehh?

http://www.wnd.com/2011/11/368769/

[Hannibal]

Imagine wrapping thin onion skin paper cut for the size of a .224 for a couple of wraps, and wrapping it in a cut in a board to get it nice and tight. Not an easy task. I did about 10 to prove to myself it could be done, and my fingers were cramped. I stick with 30 cal and larger for PP, but then again I powder coat now so I don't worry about it.

Pehaps l'm being dense, but this applies to the paper patching comment, correct? I'm curious what the BATF would be concerned about here? I'm still missing something apparently . ?

[762 shooter]

NOw thats just wrong.



May be leaded up as Ben mentioned. Don't get caught with a few boxes of Choreboys and gun. BATF now says it is intent.

Combine with a 16 oz water bottle, duct tape, and a bad attitude and one might possibly moderate one's noise signature.

I didn't say that.


762

[xacex]

Edited above for what you were asking. Sorry, haven't finished my coffee yet.

[Hannibal]

Ah. Typical government agency worrying about what someone MIGHT do instead of paying attention to the ones whom ARE doing. I should have known. Thanks.

[Captain Capsize]

I think you might have nailed it Ben. I scrubbed for another 2-3 hours today, was using choreboy and brush also rubbing compound. I think I finally got it all. Patches finally come out clean, no more rough spot. Will not shoot unchecked lead bullets again. BTW, nice work (checked out your website).

[Ben]

Thanks for that nice comment about my Website.

I remember about 45 years ago, getting a 31141 and shooting it in my .308 Win.

I didn't even know what a gas check was........I wondered why the bullet had those empty rings around the bullet ( By the way, I didn't put anything in those empty rings prior to loading them ).

I shot them " Full Tilt " with jacketed load data.

Yes, I can fully relate to your problems you've experienced during the past few days.

Took me about 14 forevers to get all that lead out of that barrel.

Ben

[Harter66]

I too have shared the joy of bbl scrubbing . I had this 06' and a 32 Rem ............ get as much of the old fouling out as you can. I don't even like to look back on the 2 hours every night after work for a week w/rods and Hoppes, B Casey's , Kroil , Rem 40x , 0000 wool etc. I did get them both clean,and they both shot well . The S K S there is an adventure in cast boolits for me . It is controlled to a tolerable level now but it still leads just past the gas port all the way to the muzzle and even w/PP will make getting the gas piston out a challenge after 500 or so rounds.
The paper patch might be a good idea just to shoot 25-30 just to slick the bore up a little , I haven't rolled any 22s yet but "how bad can it be"?

[popper]

The Pb is melted down commercial .45 acp bullets with about 5 % tin

Keep the choreboy out, unless the 45s were hardball. 5% tin is way too much. GC don't eliminate leading.

[Pilgrim]

Ben - There was zilch for casting info 45 yrs ago. The 1st Lyman cast manual was way out of print and very uncommon. I eventually found a few pages (copies). I know cause I was there too, but at least I tried lubing 'em! I thought I knew what I was doing...hah! Since my bullets were so bad (4 cavity, 358156 w/GC) accuracy was zilch. Ruger Blackhawk, .357 mag. was the launcher. I gave up on cast and that .357 and in disgust I sold it all...mould, furnace, lube/sizer, gun, everything. Too bad too as it was a nice setup. About a decade later I tried again after lots of research... which provided roughly 50% good info, and 50% bad and no way to tell which was which! BTW - I shot a box of Win factory lead magnum loads about that same time. No way factory could lead, right? Hah! Lead was actually extended out of the muzzle by the time I figgered out things weren't right! Even factories couldn't get lead right back then for magnum revolters. It's all better now, mostly....FWIW Pilgrim

[ShooterAZ]

I tried shooting some GC design boolits with no gas check in my Mosin-Nagant. The bore looked like a smoothbore after 5 shots. I will not try that again. I don't think I ever did get all the lead out of it.