I haven't gone hunting elk. Hopefully I will be picked for it this year. Many of my buddies use a 30-06. Since my distance is about 300 yards and less ill be using this until I make my .35 Whelen. My philosophy when it comes to hunting is why limit yourself. Just use what you feel most comfortable with.
Just remember (forget name) killed X amount of elephants with a 7x57 mauser. That's no more than a 7mm-08
X= WDM Bell. X1= over a thousand. Bell was an ivory hunter. He mostly used heavy, full patch (military ammo) bullets in a 7x57, many (or most?) kills from elevated stands & brain shots.
Actually I just remembered something. Isnt there some kind of liquid something that you can put in the stock to reduce recoil?
Not a fan of the recoil, huh? Do you shoot it from a bench or field positions? I never once let my wife shot the 7 off of the bench because I knew the recoil would ruin it for her. Your body can manage/distribute the recoil better shooting from field positions.Originally Posted by Jevyod
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. -- H.L. Mencken
The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naïve and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair.― H.L. Mencken
Thanks couldn't remember the name. while most were brain shots he still took the elephant down. For myself Im not the best shot so a larger cal helps. But to fast is also no helpful. I have had 150 gr 30-06 go right through a deer without it knowing it. Lost 1 deer that way to my neighbor
Back to the stocks:
Reasons I suggested changing stocks on your M700 if it’s a BDL.
One: I’ve owned BDL stocked rifles in 243 Win. It now sports a Fajen stock. Due to the terrible recoil in 243 caliber with a 24 inch varmint barrel.
Two: I’ve had this Weatherby Vanguard in 270 Win since the mid 1970’s which I’ve written maybe to much about here already. Wood stock in Weatherby’s style with lots of drop and a big Mote Carlo. It kicked like a mule and was not shot to much because of that. Then I got this Win 70 in 30-06 and it was like a ***** cat. Well dugh. I restocked the Weatherby with a Boyd’s Sporter model with Patchmayer Decelerator pad. Probably would have been more sensible to trade it on for another Win 70 in 270 but I’ve a history with the rifle. Mistake I made was not getting the checkering for another $40 or so. It’s smooth and a tad hard to hang onto.
Three: I’ve shot my son in laws 7mm Mag in a Tika T3 Light with that Horrible plastic stock. It really does not kick and I was shooting it prone with summer clothes on. Just comes down to a straight line stock that doesn’t slap you up side the face and knock your eye glasses askew.
Mercury suppressors. I have used them in a .416 rem and a .458 win mag. They do help,mostly by getting the weight of the rifle up some.
Bigger is better but not really faster, think break bone. I almost brought my 6.5X55 with 140s out but didnt, maybe next year if I get into an area with 100-200y shots. The moose hunting with 6.5X55 is mainly done with 160g RNs in under 100y woody areas. That massive SD punches long straight hole, however I dont see it relavent to many Elk hunters getting longer shots.
My area this year was like BD described. Good shots break both shoulders and pin them. Elk in fairly flat rolling hills can MOVE! Double lunged elk can run over the next hill and lay in a gorge to die..if they dont run up over another one.
My .308 with 165g Interlocks worked very well so I'd say that energy level is minimum.
Shot placement, Shot placement, Shot placement!
I knew a guy when I was young that took all his game with a 220 swift -
-including Elk - ALL with a NECK SHOT behind the skull
- if he couldn't get the shot he wanted he didn't shoot
Bullet Construction is Key on any game round
- if it can't penetrate to vitals it's no good,
- if it penetrates all the way thru it's wasting energy.
But I'd rather have too much than not enough
All that said I hunted for Elk in Oregon (Western Side) you got
two kinds of shooting -
deep in the brush (short range - one shot) and you wanted DRT.
For the timber I have two rifles I carried - Savage 99 - 358 WCF and Marlin 45-70.
The other shot you got was across a Canyon/Clear Cut - you may get more than one shot.
For long distance I have two Bolt-action rifles - 300 Win Mag and 375 Weatherby Mag.
I was at one time teased about the rifles I used,
we had a pre-season sight in, the partner I had that day
put up a target (paper on plywood nailed to a live Doug Fir tree)
at 250 or so yards
- he fired his 7mm mag for group we went up all the rounds were captured
in the tree - group was were he wanted it
- we drove back to the landing and I fired I was using my 375 WM
- 300 grain Sierra SPBT over max load of 4350 (88 grains powder)
Not only hit the target, but went through 35+ inches of wood
and hit another tree and barked it before leaving for parts unknown.
That year he hit an Elk with his 7mm Mag (I wasn't with him)
and he wanted a picture of the Elk he got
- He put the 7mm rifle in the rack and backed up to take the picture
- unfortunately he didn't make sure the Elk was expired before he did this.
The Elk got up and ran off into the timber - with his rifle!
- The next year he was using a different rifle - 340 Weatherby Mag.
Is the 7mm Mag undergunned on Elk?
- No but Elk are very tough and have the ability produce a lot of blood
- I know of one taken in Rifle season with an arrow into the chest/lung
from Bow season over a month before - it bled every day until until rifle season.
Last edited by Artful; 01-25-2014 at 11:26 PM.
je suis charlie
It is better to live one day as a LION than a dozen days as a Sheep.
Thomas Jefferson Quotations:
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
A barnes will buy you some good penetration with smaller guns. I might be tempted to use a 223 on a cow one day. Well, maybe not but I don't doubt they'll kill elk.
Not sure why this became a discussion of recoil, but I've found over the years that those elegant straight "American Classic" stocks beat me mercilessly. I'd rather a Weatherby style Monte Carlo in any caliber--it's all about body shape.
Grew up in Colorado a long time ago..when elk hunting was all wide open with few if any guides..we shot a lot of them..bigger ones and smaller ones. I never shot an elk at much over 100-150 yards...used a 30-06 converted 1917 Enfield Winchester (sporterized or bubbized..your call) with 180 grain Corlock Remington ammo...Never lost one...had to follow very few...shot placement is key as said and I believe in being just a bit over gunned than even slightly under gunned...just 2cents from an old man that spent half of his 76 years pounding up and down the mountains. First rule in the mountains where we hunted was "never shoot anything that's running down hill"...Carried a huge mulie out of a deep canyon one time when a buddy shot it running full tilt downhill...what a day that was.
I killed this elk here in Idaho with my 6.5x55mm swede. This is the 2nd elk I have shot with this rifle.I personally shoot a nosler partition, 1245 grain with a max load of varget.I have driven this bullet through 4 feet of elk( steep quartering shots).I killed a large whitetail this year right at 500 yards.The partition punched through the shoulder and exited. Elk are not bullet proof. Punch a hole through both lungs and get your pack board ready.
Horsesoldier what ranges do you get for shots?
What bullet weight since I doubt your shooting a 1245g. Typos the curse of a good post.
Marginal with good shot placement and good bullet: 25-06. Several articles abound about this same scenario and caliber.
My personal minimum 7mm-08. Just so happens to be my favorite rifle caliber as well. Recoil from the 7-08 tends to be well tolerated by most shooters.
My thought on this.....if you live in elk country where you can hunt several days of the season and be selective a "marginal" round is fine. If you are PAYING for a guided hunt put some time in at the range and use your bigger caliber, you are only going to be shooting 1-5 shots in the field and you wont notice recoil. I would have no problem with the 260, but I live in elk country and don't pay a guide. If I lived back east and this was my one chance at an elk hunt I would be taking a large caliber rifle....350 yards isn't out of the question but if you think your going to shoot out to 350 yards on an animal practice at 500 to 600 yards.
Doug
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Sticks and stones may break my bones but hollow points expand on impact.
Taxidermists are cheaper than surgeons....keep shooting
ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Some people measure success in Minutes of Angle
Well, the bullet that exits is not necessarily wasting energy if it is letting the animal bleed out both sides, especially as exits seem to bleed more than entrance holes. If the critter drops, good. If not, bigger blood trails are easier to follow. Even with both lungs hit, a lot depends on where in the lungs, and elk that are technically very dead can still stroll off a long, long way. One-shot stops make good campfire tales, but for me, if one hole all the way through is good, two is even better.
There are a couple of theories as to making a rifle more effective, higher velocity or bigger bullet. Personally, I'm a fan of the bigger bullets but to each his own. I sold off my 300 Win mag partly because of the recoil and partly because I also like shorter cartridges in shorter actions. It's not that the recoil is so great in actual energy, it just seems to be sharper, a slap instead of a punch. For lack of a better description, it's not so much painful as it is annoying.
My current elk rifle is a 338-Hawk, which is based on 338-06 and blown out a bit. With 225 or heavier bullets, the recoil is greater than the 300 Win mag. but it's a more solid, slower jolt and easier to deal with.
The method I was shown for comfortably shooting bigger guns from the bench is just to sit up as straight and erect as you can. Instead of hunching over the stock so your shoulder is in the same position it would be if you were shooting prone, put your rest bags up on something so you can sit up straight. I've used a shooting box, ammo cans, whatever, to get tall enough. This may mean taking enough sandbags so you can also prop your elbows up higher as well but the end result is your shoulder is in the same position it would be if you were shooting standing and your body can move with the recoil instead of crushing the front of your shoulder down onto the top of your rib cage. 12ga slugs, 45-70 lever guns with heavy bullets and fire-forming 338 wildcat cases all feel better sitting straighter.
As to any given bullet being a guaranteed performer, maybe si, maybe no, because there are no two shots that are ever identical. I have two 338 bullets recovered from the same bull elk that were fired as fast as I could work the bolt. They entered about six inches apart and passed through the body the same way. Same bullet, same load, same day, same elk, name brand bullet, nearly the same spot. One recovered just under the far-side hide just behind the foreleg, the other from the far-side elbow joint on the foreleg. One bullet is perfectly mushroomed and could be a model in a bullet ad. It's twin apparently just grazed a rib going in which bent the bullet like a banana and kept it from mushrooming at all, though it looked like it tumbled all the way through.
350 yard shots are quite doable on elk as the vital zone is large. With any rifle, though, a look at a ballistic table might be a good idea before pulling the trigger on longer shots. Using a 300-Whatever Mag as an example, no matter what energy it has at the muzzle, there will be some distance down range where the remaining energy is only about the same as a 30-30 at 50 or a 100. At that point you are not really hitting the elk any harder than you could with a 30-30 if you got closer, and bullets designed to work at higher energies may not even be that effective.
No matter what you are shooting, you can seemingly do everything right and still come up empty. IIRC there was a really large bull elk taken in northern New Mexico a few years back that probably had as many lives as a cat. Over the years he had accumulated something like five healed rifle wounds. And when he was finally put down it turned out he was carrying parts of three or more arrows as well.
If it were easy, it wouldn't be any fun. Whatever you carry, practice to proficiency. Good Luck! Good Hunting, May God Bless! (and when you succeed, send me some jerky...)
I like the idea of the 338 Hawk. Every since I bought a Hornady 3rd edition back in the 1970’s and saw the 8mm-06 listed I’ve been intrigued by necked up 06 rounds.
Saw a new Nosler bullet the other day. Accubond long range. They have 30’s in a 190 and 210. The 210 grain has a B.C. of .730! Believe my 30-06 would push that big boy along just fine. Nosler load data says a full charge of RL22 moves it at 2,646 fps. From a 24” barrel. That would get me out of the marginal range.
My daughter hunts Elk with a 270 Win using 140 grain AccuBonds. That and the 6.5mm is where I'd draw the line. I'd not chastise a man for using a 243 with 100 gain Grand Slams. I just don't see why they would want to. I get lots of goofy looks when I show up with cast boolits. Those same guys a week later will be out in the woods with a bow and arrow feeling just fine.
Very well said.
GabbyM my friend hunted with me twice just to see what the GIANT 375H&H was going to do to an Elk. He was very disappionted why my cast boolit wasted 1/2 the meat his 270 did! He was also waiting for the little whitetail I shot to explode. He still doesnt know what to think of my boolits since its against everything a 27 year old hunter has grown up to "know".
I own a 7mm Rem Mag. and I consider it marginal for elk. I am not an elk hunter, but they are big tough animals, known to carry a lot of lead a long way. I consider a well constructed 180gr. 30 cal bullet to be the minimum and if I were going elk hunting would build a .338 Win Mag. loaded with 225 Nosler Partitions. Overkill? Maybe, but I would feel better.
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